- Jul 10, 2003
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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,235
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,810
- Thread starter
- #2,243
Well this is a thread specifically designed to elicit a response to Trump’s candidacy (or by association, Biden’s) so it’s a bit hard to make intelligent or useful on topic contributions to the thread without declaring some kind of position on Trump or Biden - unless you just post the ‘news’ - but even then one’s selection of news sources contain inherent bias in that choice.
Not sure who you are referring to as ‘throwing toys out of the pram’ btw but if Trump wins, which is seemingly getting more and more like a real possibility, I can assure you it will have far more a devastating impact on global enviro-geo-eco-politics than your trivilisation of the thread (and of those commenting on the issues) seems to reflect.
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Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,053
Made up? Most apart from the papers at Mara lago. Its called lawfare and my auto correct is going a bit gimpy atm.
I think an insurrection is an organised riot to overthrow the authority. Which was why the FBI was threatening defendants with long sentences if they didn't give evidence of collusion with trump. They didn't give evidence as there wasn't any so got long sentences for not colluding go figure.
BLM riots are relevant as an example of a 2 tier justice system. Jan6ers have been held in solitary for months without charges for what is effectively trespass, whereas BLM/antifa marxist were released to carry on rioting.
So, he / his company didn't inflate the value of his properties?
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,053
The charges are to hamper his election campaign brought by DNC judges and DAs, None are likely to be fair trials if you have read the details of the latest trial its an absolute abomination.
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 1,053
Thats not how it works, you get independent valuations or the onus is on the lender to value and agree the loan. Loans were agreed and repaid, no victim or any other type of crime. This is making other businesses a bit panic ridden and I think it was the mayor who said this judgement only applies to trump to calm nerves. Wot?
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,810
- Thread starter
- #2,248
You are arguing a red herring here - I’ve covered this up thread but the main criminal indictments Trump faces relating to the 2020 Election do not include a charge of insurrection deliberately as it is difficult to prove - instead he faces 4 indictments all carrying 10-20yrs in prison and/or substantial fines:
FALSE:
‘More than 700 people have been charged in the Jan. 6 insurrection, according to the Justice Department. They were arrested mostly on federal charges ranging from unlawfully entering the Capitol to seditious conspiracy. Suspects include more than three dozen members and associates of right-wing extremist groups such as the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers.’
Jan. 6 defendants have been charged with crimes
A gubernatorial candidate in Arizona made the false claim in a video that she posted on Twitter on Wednesday.
apnews.com
TRUE: “The AP found that more than 120 defendants (from BLM riots ) across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.”
TRUE - BLM riots were serious and they were charged accordingly but they didn’t force their way into the US Capitol and try to overturn a GE result - the Jan 6ers threatened the heart of the Constitutional pillars of American liberal democracy and Congress itself. The idea that BLM protestors are being summarily treated more leniently than the J6ers is because in the main, their crimes were less serious.
Records rebut claims of unequal treatment of Jan. 6 rioters
Some people charged in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol and their Republican allies claim the Justice Department is treating them harshly because of their political views.
apnews.com
Are you projecting? - Like the Republicans did to Hilary Clinton, except in that case there was only careless handling of classified material, in Trump’s case it is deliberately withholding classified documents (even after being ask for their return).
A scheme that for 13 years used inflated property prices to gain tax benefits not a crime? It’s criminal tax fraud and Trump was found guilty by 12 jurors from mixed political backgrounds.
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
You seem to have missed out the Grand Jury part of the process in bringing charges in most of these cases. Ordinary people, not DAs, not judges, not officials.
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Having been following the Trump story since before he was elected, I'd disagree with you on the trials simply based on the evidence that has been made public.
With regards to the insurrection, you haven't really answered the question I posed, but you do seem to agree that the attack on the Capitol was an insurrection - an organised riot to overthrow authority.
The BLM stuff I don't know much about so I will look into further, though I suspect there is no direct comparison between looting and trying to stop the transfer of power. I will check though, as I could be wrong on that.
No they wouldn't vote, they'd lead instead. That can happen in a democracy too, but thankfully not for as many years.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,810
- Thread starter
- #2,252
Please see my post above - I have addressed all these points.
1. Trump has not been charged with ‘insurrection’ in his criminal indictments in the January 6 case - you are being side-tracked (probably deliberately) into discussing an irrelevance. Crawly Dingo knows Trump will not be convicted of insurrection in his criminal case because he has not even been charged with ‘insurrection’! - see the indictment paper above that I posted. The prosecutor deliberately worded the charges to exclude ‘insurrection’ as he knew that ‘intent’ would be hard to prove. Instead Trump has been charged with 4 separate counts of very serious federal offences that could each attract up to 10 to 20 years jail/heavy fines., Debating what insurrection means is a moot argument as far as Trump’s criminal liability is concerned.
Scroll down the link to see the full charges
DocumentCloud
www.documentcloud.org
2. Again with regard to your comment about comparing the BLM charges with the J6ers see my post above and the apnews link posted below - the BLM charges were for various charges of violence, criminal damage etc but the BLM charges were not as serious as the charges against the Jan6ers for storming the Capitol building, interfering in the election and attacking Congress.
“The property damage or accusations of arson and looting from last year, (by BLM) those were serious and they were dealt with seriously, but they weren’t an attack on the very core constitutional processes that we rely on in a democracy, nor were they an attack on the United States Congress,” said Kent Greenfield, a professor at Boston College Law School.”
Which explains the disparity in charges between the J6ers and BLM.
Records rebut claims of unequal treatment of Jan. 6 rioters
Some people charged in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol and their Republican allies claim the Justice Department is treating them harshly because of their political views.
apnews.com
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Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
Erm, thanks @Zeberdi . I'm not sure, any further explanation was required for me, I am fully aware Mr Trump hasn't been charged with insurrection - I was merely curious as to what level of weaponry @Crawley Dingo thought was required for an insurrection to be regarded as legitimate... which is probably off topic.
I am interested in the BLM stuff, which I admit not paying much attention to at the time, so will browse through the links you've posted at my leisure. Again, probably off topic.
I am interested in the BLM stuff, which I admit not paying much attention to at the time, so will browse through the links you've posted at my leisure. Again, probably off topic.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,810
- Thread starter
- #2,254
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to step on any toes but you seemed to be getting sucked into to an argument CD has been trying to bait everyone else into for months about there being no evidence Trump is guilty of insurrection - just saying it‘s a moot argument . The links I posted aren’t off topic btw but very specific to the accusation by MAGArs that the J6ers are being treated more harshly than the BLM rioters or being kept incarcerated for months without being charged as CD claims above (which would be illegal).
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It‘s an op-ed from a US senator, so pick whatever source you prefer or just don’t bother with it. Posting nonsense in the hope of a “like“ is beneath you…I think…
Better stop posting all newspaper articles then, it works equally well on the left.
Be careful not to come to the conclusion that BLM is a Marxist, POS of an organization that has done absolutely nothing to help blacks in America other than to enrich themselves. You will be crucified upside down...
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
As an aside, if you are interested in the odd culture war stories that seem to permeate the Trump era, I'd highly recommend having a listen to Jon Ronson's Things Fell Apart series' on BBC Sounds:
www.bbc.co.uk
BBC Sounds - Things Fell Apart - Available Episodes
Listen to the latest episodes of Things Fell Apart on BBC Sounds
www.bbc.co.uk
Seagull58
In the Algarve
His 11,000 sq ft apartment was described as 30,000 sq ft for valuation purposes.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,235
previous now banned incarnation