Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[daveinprague]

It wasnt just labour though was it...
Does this look like a standard artillery piece and ammunition to you?
I think its best we stay out of it...regardless of what labour, the tories, or anybody else thinks.
My feelings are not guided by them to be honest. Id rather not be supporting Islamic fundamentalists.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a6b_1377702038

 

[ATFC Seagull]

My anger right now is Labour have limited our options to zero

Surely the government did that by calling this second vote? They could have waited until the UN reported back and there were facts and tangible objectives to discuss. I think those that opposed blindly following America into war at this stage had no real choice but to vote "no", as a positive vote could have been seen to give Cameron the green light to proceed without further consultation.

I am very wary of this conflict but would not rule out my support for involvement down the line, however I would have voted no last night if I was a British MP.

 

[martyn20]

It wasnt just labour though was it...
Does this look like a standard artillery piece and ammunition to you?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a6b_1377702038

That does not look like a standard piece of artillery but that does not prove the rebels carried out the attack on the 21st does it? If that is a chemical rocket it's does prove both sides have them but still does not confirm who was responsible for the recent attack does it?
I believe that video is over a year old and where the weapons came from or who is firing them is only according to the narrator is it not?

 

[martyn20]

Surely the government did that by calling this second vote? They could have waited until the UN reported back and there were facts and tangible objectives to discuss. I think those that opposed blindly following America into war at this stage had no real choice but to vote "no", as a positive vote could have been seen to give Cameron the green light to proceed without further consultation.

I am very wary of this conflict but would not rule out my support for involvement down the line, however I would have voted no last night if I was a British MP.

There could have been a vote that just said UK MP's condemn Syria but by the way Labour framed it's own amendment and then threatened to vote against a basic question as above made it very difficult for the government to get any vote. They watered it down time and time again and still lost. Lets remember it was not Cameron and the front bench who wanted a recall of parliament, that was Labour and his rebels. Cameron could have joined the US in action and then consulted parliament afterwards under the rules.

 

[fruitnveg]

Despite differing personal politics, I'm with DIP, Mustafa and crew on this. I'd elaborate, but what's the point? They've all said it several times over in this thread already.

 

[smeariestbat]

i'm gonna have to say, although i think mustafa is usually a nutbar,i do agree with him on this.

 

[martyn20]

So the US is releasing evidence that shows when and from where and at what time the rockets were fired on 21st, they were fired from regime held areas and fired into rebel controlled areas. How did the rebels get into those areas to fire these rockets?
Over 1400 dead including over 400 children.

 

[martyn20]

WH: Syrian chem weapons personnel were operating in the Damascus suburb of ‘Adra from Sun, Aug 18 until early in the morning on Wed, Aug 21

 

[7:18]

Kerry's speech is getting interesting...

 

[martyn20]

The US led attack must be pretty close, maybe tonight. The UN report can not help find blame, the West and the Arab states have already said it happened.

 

[daveinprague]

What evidence did they release?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The US led attack must be pretty close, maybe tonight. The UN report can not help find blame, the West and the Arab states have already said it happened.

Won't be tonight as the UN inspectors don't leave until tomorrow. After that watch the fireworks.

 

[martyn20]

What evidence did they release?

Link to PDF

http://t.co/scD07Cubw2

 

[portslade seagull]

Rockets launched from Assad positions and apparently they spent 3 days prior setting the chemicals up for the bombs in readyness and they are also still making them

 

[Soulman]

US, no... UN, yes, under limited conditions. I dont think we should be swaying this in any direction with our actions...Ive been saying civil war, but its not even a civil war in reality...theres sunni jihadists from all over the arab world, the caucacus, Britain, Canada, USA, on one side, and Syrians, with Hezbolloh in the north on the other side...
Why people want the jihadist lunatics of Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, and the Islamic State of Iraq insurgents to win
this war is totally beyond me.
If the 'rebels' win, and establish a hardline fundamentalist state, we will end up bombing them as well in the future, with more chance troops on the ground in a future war.

I have to say that i have read through the posts since last night.
I am amazed that i agree with your posts DIP, i don't normally. This is the pick (imo) of your posts so far.

 

[martyn20]

The US have satellite data of the rocket launches and they come from regime held areas, how could the rebels have moved into those areas are fired so many over a sustained period of time.
That document makes very hard reading, very sad events.

 

[Soulman]

The US have satellite data of the rocket launches and they come from regime held areas, how could the rebels have moved into those areas are fired so many over a sustained period of time.
That document makes very hard reading, very sad events.

"“From numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families….many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the (deadly) gas attack,” he writes in the article.

The rebels noted it was a result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them.

“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta.

As Gavlak reports, Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels died in a weapons storage tunnel. The father stated the weapons were provided to rebel forces by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, describing them as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.”

“They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them,” complained a female fighter named ‘K’. “We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons.”

“When Saudi Prince Bandar gives such weapons to people, he must give them to those who know how to handle and use them,” she warned. She, like other Syrians, do not want to use their full names for fear of retribution.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_...ing-the-weapons-were-provided-by-Saudis-1203/

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

http://thepepperpotpost.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/putting-the-syrians-back-into-the-syria-debate/

Me blog on the issue...

 

[daveinprague]

Its a sad state of affairs...thanks for the pdf btw, id just got in when I saw about this... Im still not convinced, the passage referring to chemical use during this disaster of the last couple of years, the words 'we assess the oppostion have not used chemical weapons' makes whatever else is written a bit suspect.
Maybe Assads troops did, maybe they didnt, maybe they did in the past, maybe they didnt....same goes for the 'rebels'...(who have bragged about it) ...but we still go ahead and continue to arm the 'rebels'. Im just very glad were not involved.

 

[Soulman]

The US have satellite data of the rocket launches and they come from regime held areas, how could the rebels have moved into those areas are fired so many over a sustained period of time.
That document makes very hard reading, very sad events.

24 hours ago you seemed hell bent on the UK attacking the Syria Government. You seemed sure that THEY were the ones using the Chemicals. Maybe just waiting for concrete evidence would be advisable.