Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[somerset]

On that we're agreed.

The government giving their party a whip line to vote in something like this is appalling. Thankfully, 40 rebelled.

..... and 100 didn't even turn up to vote.

 

[The Large One]

I believe you need to broaden your view,... but hey, its all subjective, one mans iconic leader, is anothers liar and political criminal,.... a la Blair.

Note: Bush Jnr and Snr were probably the most heinous political leaders of our time..... bar none.

I have a very broad view, which is why bombing Syria without a clear strategy, mandate, agreement and exit procedure adds more problems than it resolves; as opposed to 'no pain, no gain', which in this instance, has no value.

 

[somerset]

I have a very broad view, which is why bombing Syria without a clear strategy, mandate, agreement and exit procedure adds more problems than it resolves

Its ok, I know your modus operandi,.. talk talk talk, sanctions sanctions sanctions, in the meantime, death death death,.... but as long as it isn't on your doorstep that's fine. I would chuckle in amazement if there has ever been any conflict in history with this golden foursome of pre-requisites in place,..... (a clear strategy, mandate, agreement and exit procedure) ...... some dream reality you inhabit. You know full well that even with all four in place, you would object on the basis that it would have emerged from the coalition.

 

[bWize]

Its ok, I know your modus operandi,.. talk talk talk, sanctions sanctions sanctions, in the meantime, death death death,....

I agree that we should not stand back and watch people die, but at the same time if we went in now and started bombing the place it would mean we learnt nothing about the Iraq war. Until hard evidence comes to light that Assad has used used chemical weapons on the rebels we should stay right out of it. The U.S have their own agenda for going to war with Syria as they did with Iraq. A huge majority of UK society are opposed to this. It's a good day for democracy in the UK

If we are that worried about torture and death we should start by taking out people like Mugabe. But of course there is nothing of financial gain there...

 

[The Large One]

Its ok, I know your modus operandi,.. talk talk talk, sanctions sanctions sanctions, in the meantime, death death death,.... but as long as it isn't on your doorstep that's fine. I would chuckle in amazement if there has ever been any conflict in history with this golden foursome of pre-requisites in place,..... (a clear strategy, mandate, agreement and exit procedure) ...... some dream reality you inhabit. You know full well that even with all four in place, you would object on the basis that it would have emerged from the coalition.

It's just a bunch of words loosely strung together for you, isn't it?

Let's get this straight - I disagree with the concept of missile strikes that has no guarantee of a positive outcome and many chances of making things worse, and you go into meltdown over what you've convinced yourself someone else is thinking. Sadly, you've made a crap job of it.

I haven't said what the resolution is - and I don't think that there is ONE resolution. All I would say is that there is no evidence to say that firing off missiles would have a positive effect. You've convinced yourself it would, but you haven't convinced anyone else. Using a 'no pain, no gain' justification just marks you out as a bit... Andy McNab.

 

[Canonman]

First two points I have to disagree with here.

1 Why hate all politicians and claim they are all the same ? - Here they are making decision for the people, whether or not we send our armed forces into combat. That is not a trivial decision and there are people on both sides of the argument who deserve some respect.

2 How can this be described as gesturing party politics ? The vote and debate last night, go to the very core of what does this country stand for, there is nothing petty about the debate or vote at all.

From my own perspective I find I am still sitting on the fence. I share the view that the use of chemical weapons is abhorrent and don't believe this can be allowed to continue. However I need to feel convinced that there is a strategic goal to intervention. This requires some degree of political stability in Syria and an end to civilian casualties. It is unclear at this stage what military intervention will achieve.

Finally there is a massive difference between sounding and acting in a statesman like manner. Cameron has made a massive error in judgement and the result is an inflexible position, which will be difficult to change, especially if the situation in Syria escalates.

I'll forward this to The PM.

 

[martyn20]

I agree that we should not stand back and watch people die, but at the same time if we went in now and started bombing the place it would mean we learnt nothing about the Iraq war. Until hard evidence comes to light that Assad has used used chemical weapons on the rebels we should stay right out of it. The U.S have their own agenda for going to war with Syria as they did with Iraq. A huge majority of UK society are opposed to this. It's a good day for democracy in the UK

If we are that worried about torture and death we should start by taking out people like Mugabe. But of course there is nothing of financial gain there...

But the way Labour acted over the past 2 days in framing their amendment and threatening non-support of the government amendment they have now excluded us from any action even if clear evidence does become available blaming one side or the other from the US today or the UN over the weekend.
We are out totally whatever is proved.

 

[somerset]

I agree that we should not stand back and watch people die...

How nice of you....

Until hard evidence comes to light that Assad has used used chemical weapons on the rebels we should stay right out of it...

That's never going to happen and you know it, so that means your point above is a lie.

A huge majority of society are opposed to this...

. Really, the majority in parliament, with 100 mp's not voting, was 13,..... not a HUGE majority at all, and when did you canvass the UK population about it?

we should start by taking out people like Mugabe. But of course there is nothing of financial gain there...

Oh, I see, one minute you don't want intervention, the next you do,.... make up your mind.

 

[bWize]

But the way Labour acted over the past 2 days in framing their amendment and threatening non-support of the government amendment they have now excluded us from any action even if clear evidence does become available blaming one side or the other from the US today or the UN over the weekend.
We are out totally whatever is proved.

I think if things became obvious that there was clear and open use of chemicals weapons being used by the Assad regime there would be a re-vote on the situation?

The point is that isn't the situation at the moment and it wouldn't make much sense for Assad to be so wreckless as to start firing chems on their own people when under such scutiny from the U.S. Obama even said that the use of chemical weapons would be "crossing the red line"

Somebody is stirring the pot, but I really don't believe its the Syrian government and until that's established we did the right thing voting against it!

 

[CheeseRolls]

I'll forward this to The PM.

Sarcasm I know, but he does need sound out a few more people, before he jumps in with both feet. It won't take too much more for there to be murmurings of a leadership challenge within the Conservative party.

 

[The Large One]

But the way Labour acted over the past 2 days in framing their amendment and threatening non-support of the government amendment they have now excluded us from any action even if clear evidence does become available blaming one side or the other from the US today or the UN over the weekend.
We are out totally whatever is proved.

I don't agree.

The international community, of which the UK is a part, must do something. Cameron will be pressing for that something, in whatever form it takes. Parliament, for instance, will have its collective head turned if the UN Inspectors file a report unequivocally blaming Assad. There will be more debates in the Commons over this.

The problems are that Parliament needs convincing that (1) Assad is definitely to blame and that (2) military intervention will be a ultimately a force for good. So far, those cases have not been made to Parliament's satisfaction.

Nor the country's as a whole.

 

[somerset]

It's just a bunch of words loosely strung together for you, isn't it?

Let's get this straight - I disagree with the concept of missile strikes that has no guarantee of a positive outcome and many chances of making things worse, and you go into meltdown over what you've convinced yourself someone else is thinking. Sadly, you've made a crap job of it.

I haven't said what the resolution is - and I don't think that there is ONE resolution. All I would say is that there is no evidence to say that firing off missiles would have a positive effect. You've convinced yourself it would, but you haven't convinced anyone else. Using a 'no pain, no gain' justification just marks you out as a bit... Andy McNab.

You need to read my comments in full then respond,... I resent the McNab reference completely, my whole approach is from a humanitarian perspective,... you keep throwing conditional political justifications into the mix, that may get your support, but you know full well that under any conditions you would still want us to keep out and thus by extension allow this slaughter to continue.

 

[daveinprague]

Theres standing around doing nothing for a good reason...We dont know who did it ffs... why would we bomb the Assad government forces, when we have no clue if they did it? Its ludicrous, and why are we now allied to Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, and the Islamic State of Iraq 'rebels'.

 

[bWize]

How nice of you....

That's never going to happen and you know it, so that means your point above is a lie.

. Really, the majority in parliament, with 100 mp's not voting, was 13,..... not a HUGE majority at all, and when did you canvass the UK population about it?

Oh, I see, one minute you don't want intervention, the next you do,.... make up your mind.

Clearly a bored troll. Your life must be such fun

 

[somerset]

those cases have not been made to Parliament's satisfaction.

Nor the country's as a whole.

.... did you miss me out when you canvassed this opinion?

 

[martyn20]

I don't agree.

The international community, of which the UK is a part, must do something. Cameron will be pressing for that something, in whatever form it takes. Parliament, for instance, will have its collective head turned if the UN Inspectors file a report unequivocally blaming Assad. There will be more debates in the Commons over this.

The problems are that Parliament needs convincing that (1) Assad is definitely to blame and that (2) military intervention will be a ultimately a force for good. So far, those cases have not been made to Parliament's satisfaction.

Nor the country's as a whole.

I really think we have had to rule ourselves out totally, we will not be involved in action, Mr Miliband has made sure of that in the name of mistakes made by the Blair government, a group he was part of at the time.

 

[bWize]

That's never going to happen and you know it, so that means your point above is a lie.

. Really, the majority in parliament, with 100 mp's not voting, was 13,..... not a HUGE majority at all, and when did you canvass the UK population about it?

You get a very good idea of public opinion from the upvoted/downvoted comments on big sites like the BBC

Have a look for yourself - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

You live in denial and luckily your breed is dying out!

 

[somerset]

Clearly a bored troll. Your life must be such fun

Happily multi-streaming with my day job responsibilities from the comfort of my office at home,.... not bored at all, very entertained. I will be heading to my rugby club later for a pint or two, then down to the Amex in the morning..... interesting enough for you?.... I think you just struggle when someone questions your ramblings.

 

[bWize]

Happily multi-streaming with my day job responsibilities from the comfort of my office at home,.... not bored at all, very entertained. I will be heading to my rugby club later for a pint or two, then down to the Amex in the morning..... interesting enough for you?.... I think you just struggle when someone questions your ramblings.

Living the dream...

 

[somerset]

You get a very good idea of public opinion from the upvoted/downvoted comments on big sites like the BBC

Have a look for yourself - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

You live in denial and luckily your breed is dying out!

I am a little busy,... can you count the comments on that link and let me know how many were for, how many against,.... go on, I am sure it will be fun for you.