Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[martyn20]

You really have a simple mind don't you?

If NATO knock out the nation's command and control infrastructure, it will pave the way for the terrorists to take over. We need to keep well away from supporting the terrorists. It is NOT our problem how many get killed. The West may think they are doing it for the right reasons (although probably not the ones we get told!), but it will simply turn even more Arabs into anti-west fighters in the long run.

In an ideal world, we should simply go in, capture the culprits, and charge them for war crimes. We do not live inan ideal world. Anything the wast does, will only end up killing more civilians.

Look at the mess we have left in Iraq!

Why do you feel the need to back up your points with insults?
The point of any attacks would be to stop further chemical attacks, 1 or 2 or 3 days of missile attacks will not change the course of this civil war but if properly targeted they will damage Assads (SSRC) and ministry of defence. If the west does not try what is to stop him doing it every Wednesday, or is that ok and not our problem?

 

[daveinprague]

Something that just came up on CNN regarding the US assessment...
If they knew that the Assad forces were preparing for a chemical attacks for three days, why were the Syrians told
er...dont even think about it..

Anyway, ive really go to go out, need to be past Slavias stadium before the Supercup empties out...

 

[martyn20]

You're joking? re-read what you're saying.

Hezbollah is fighting on Assad's side. Lebanon is within firing range of Syria. Who says they were fired within Syria?

What an appalling response.

My mistake I replied as I was reading your links, sorry. So are you saying the responsible party for the attack on 21st is Hezbollah or the Syrian Regime?

 

[GreersElbow]

Why do you feel the need to back up your points with insults?
The point of any attacks would be to stop further chemical attacks, 1 or 2 or 3 days of missile attacks will not change the course of this civil war but if properly targeted they will damage Assads (SSRC) and ministry of defence. If the west does not try what is to stop him doing it every Wednesday, or is that ok and not our problem?

Of course all the Assad generals, politicians and advisers will be all held up in public buildings which they know that the Americans know are all whilst they know an U.S attack is imminent.

Chances are, they have a war room or a few which happen to be underground in the event of an emergency.

 

[GreersElbow]

My mistake I replied as I was reading your links, sorry. So are you saying the responsible party for the attack on 21st is Hezbollah or the Syrian Regime?

Hezbollah, although who supplied them the weapons could be murky. Assad was known to have tried to give them an arms shipment a few months ago which they apparently denied. But we all know who they're good friends with though. Those pesky Iranians, who'd love to provoke the U.S in to action. http://www.cfr.org/iran/hezbollah-connection-syria-iran/p30005

A report on the Iranian link to Hezbollah and their role in Syria from February.

 

[drew]

My take on this at the present time is that, firstly, Cameron jumped the gun by calling back parliament and seeking to join any military action that the US were planning. He was reigned in by Miliband but this backfired on both of them when neither Labours motion nor the amended Tory one was passed. I would suggest that this was in the main MPs taking a political decision about their own futures rather than a humanitarian one for the victims.

With regard to the chemical attack, I have no reason not to believe that the rebels have chemical weapons however, what evidence there is seems to me to strongly suggest that the attack was perpetrated by the Assad regime. As Kerry has said in his speech, they spent 4 days bombing the area after the attack which would only have the effect of destroying evidence. If it wasn't Assad, it would have served his purpose more to let the inspectors in to find evidence that may then have pointed the finger at the rebels and therefore undermine their support.

So, taking the 'judgement' that it was Assad, what does the world do. We don't have to invade to make a point. Precision bombing on key military installations or, if the locations of the chemical stockpiles are known, bomb them (assuming they are not in residential areas). If Assad knows that the world will respond again on this basis then it is going to undermine his military capability to take on the rebels.

Finally, talking of the rebels, this is dilemma. This is not about good versus evil, pro-democracy v dictatorship, it is evil v evil. We can't go in to defeat one without helping the other. There does however seem to be an assumption that if you think that there should be action taken against Assad then you automatically are supporting the rebels which is not the case.

What I do believe though is that if the perpetrator of this attack suffers no retribution then that will be a green light to produce more and more of the stuff and then actually use it. And if that is what happens, then how many more children will die just because a few MPs were worried about the next election!!!!!!

 

[martyn20]

Of course all the Assad generals, politicians and advisers will be all held up in public buildings which they know that the Americans know are all whilst they know an U.S attack is imminent.

Chances are, they have a war room or a few which happen to be underground in the event of an emergency.

And hopefully there is satellite coverage and special forces on the ground who know this, the invasion and beyond of Iraq was a disaster but the bombing raids before did do the job very well, they could not fight back

 

[Brightonfan1]

Why do you feel the need to back up your points with insults?
The point of any attacks would be to stop further chemical attacks, 1 or 2 or 3 days of missile attacks will not change the course of this civil war but if properly targeted they will damage Assads (SSRC) and ministry of defence. If the west does not try what is to stop him doing it every Wednesday, or is that ok and not our problem?

Because you ask for it maybe?

Just a question but do you work for a living? you seem to spend night and day on here and SC (talking to yourself on there) with lots of opinions but you don't like it when people disagree and have a go back, so what job do you do? or is my 60 hours a week funding your social life on here and other places?

 

[pork pie]

Why do you feel the need to back up your points with insults?
The point of any attacks would be to stop further chemical attacks, 1 or 2 or 3 days of missile attacks will not change the course of this civil war but if properly targeted they will damage Assads (SSRC) and ministry of defence. If the west does not try what is to stop him doing it every Wednesday, or is that ok and not our problem?

Exactly this. There is no way to stop it, and any attempt will only make matters worse.

It was not an insult, I could do much better on that front. It was simply a statement of fact. You don't know anything about the Middle East, and simply accept what the media and government feed you. Try to research the BACKGROUND to the conflict, and to gain an understanding of the overall situation. Then decide for yourself if crippling the Syrian Government will be in anyone's long term interests other than the rebels - who are themselves a bunch of anti-west terrorists.

A few days of US firepower will wipe-out Assad's ability to wage any war, and simlpy ensure that the rebels can win. The interesting thing will be to see how good the Russian weapons will be against the latest US kit. They will love the chance to test it.

 

[GreersElbow]

And hopefully there is satellite coverage and special forces on the ground who know this, the invasion and beyond of Iraq was a disaster but the bombing raids before did do the job very well, they could not fight back

I doubt the effectiveness of shock and awe in its role in aiding NATO roll in to Iraq.

 

[Dandyman]

I think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Study the subject, look as the way they treat their people (the native Saudis), and then try again.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/saudi-arabia The Saudi rulers are a gang of murderous tyrants.

 

[martyn20]

Because you ask for it maybe?

Just a question but do you work for a living? you seem to spend night and day on here and SC (talking to yourself on there) with lots of opinions but you don't like it when people disagree and have a go back, so what job do you do? or is my 60 hours a week funding your social life on here and other places?

Either make a point in relation to the thread or go away

 

[Dandyman]

And if the US or the UN come up with strong evidence would you then support a limited missile attack on Assad?

No - it would achieve nothing other than further instability, credibility for the regime against foreign attacks, the prospect of extremists gaining control of serious weaponry and in time an increase in the number of deaths, an even greater refugee problem and no real resolution to what is in truth a civil war.

 

[martyn20]

No - it would achieve nothing other than further instability, credibility for the regime against foreign attacks, the prospect of extremists gaining control of serious weaponry and in time an increase in the number of deaths, an even greater refugee problem and no real resolution to what is in truth a civil war.

So if he repeated this attack every week for a month then would we go in and try and do something?

 

[Brightonfan1]

Either make a point in relation to the thread or go away

I will take that as a no then.

im doing 10 hours overtime next week, enjoy the bonus.

 

[GreersElbow]

Well, one thing's for certain, sectarian violence is going to be rife whether either side wins or not. The Shia and Sunnis f*cking hate each other.

 

[pork pie]

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/saudi-arabia The Saudi rulers are a gang of murderous tyrants.

Amnesty are scum. They should all be hung themselves. All they do is support terrorists and cannot understand that if the terrorists they support kept themselves out of trouble, nobody would be in prision in the first place.

If they are such "murderous tyrants", why do they treat their people with kid gloves? Even their prisons have ares for conjugal visits.

I suggest you change your reading matter to something a little less biased.

 

[martyn20]

I will take that as a no then.

im doing 10 hours overtime next week, enjoy the bonus.

I have sent a PM answering your first question, it's a subject I do not want to discuss on the forum.

 

[martyn20]

Amnesty are scum. They should all be hung themselves. All they do is support terrorists and cannot understand that if the terrorists they support kept themselves out of trouble, nobody would be in prision in the first place.

If they are such "murderous tyrants", why do they treat their people with kid gloves? Even their prisons have ares for conjugal visits.

I suggest you change your reading matter to something a little less biased.

You have a very twisted and biased view point, it's stands out very clearly.

 

[pork pie]

Well, one thing's for certain, sectarian violence is going to be rife whether either side wins or not. The Shia and Sunnis f*cking hate each other.

They do. And the reasons go back in their respective religeous histories. The Sunnis are mainstream, but there are over 70 sects that we gather together under the Shiite banner. They are fundementally extreamist and it is easy to see the effects where they hold power or even exist. Bombing Mosques for **** sake - how sick is that?