[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[Berty23]

The youth are lazy.

This was said in a debate in Parliament in 1985. So these people who were the youth in 1985 will now be mid to late 50s. I would imagine similar said in 1965.

The Government regard youth as an embarrassment and a liability. Faced with the crisis of youth unemployment, which is substantially of their own making, Ministers have rained blows and blame on young people. Youth should be an exciting and fulfilling time of life. Throughout the ages, poets have celebrated and revered youth. Youth's the season made for joys wrote John Gay. Byron also dwelt on the sweetness of youth:

 

[Snowflake]

Fraud companies I would imagine, like the ones issuing fake Covid fit to fly certificates.

That’s what I was wondering. Shouldn’t they be putting effort into closing these down first. ( a generic question. Not a direct response to you.)

 

[Colonel Mustard]

The trope is that 'benefit culture' has 'got worse'
The problem (not stated but implied) is that GPs hand out sick notes inappropriately
So Sunak has come up with a 'quite reasonable' plan to deal with benefit fraud.

And lots of people, including some ordinarily sensible people who post on NSC have bought the trope, even getting patronizing or even pissy when they think that I and others are against tackling benefit fraud.

This is nothing to do with benefit fraud, old fruits. It's weaponizing the concept of benefit fraud. The new 'illegal immigration'.

Now, even if this 'plan' is not enacted, it has reminded us all of the problem (as stated above) and seeded the idea that benefit fraud is rife
Whether the Tories get in again or not* they are seeding the benefit fraud concept to weaponize, going forward.
And you cannot argue with the 'plan' or you will be in favour of benefit fraud

"Labour wasting taxpayers money subsidize benefit cheats. Stealing money from hard-working men and women"

Along with 'illegal immigration' (which Labour actively encourages, obviously) there we have our political narrative for the next five years. Or ten.

*It's not. Pray to your chosen deity that it's not.

Why put illegal immigration in quote marks like that as if it doesn’t exist? It does exist. The majority of immigrants arrive perfectly lawfully with visas and by prearrangement, to rejoin families or take up job offers etc. No problem whatever. People who arrive unofficially, including those in small boats, do so illegally. Yes, plenty will later be granted the right to stay and acquire legal status. Again, no problem. But there is such a thing as illegal immigration and it creates significant problems. As with the minority playing the welfare system, they create problems for those who genuinely deserve support and finance. You need to acknowledge that not everyone has good intentions, just as you rightly complain about the negative consequences for those who aren’t treated fairly by the system. Play fair and be treated fairly. That should be the principle to unite behind, and to strive for.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The youth are lazy.

This was said in a debate in Parliament in 1985. So these people who were the youth in 1985 will now be mid to late 50s. I would imagine similar said in 1965.

The Government regard youth as an embarrassment and a liability. Faced with the crisis of youth unemployment, which is substantially of their own making, Ministers have rained blows and blame on young people. Youth should be an exciting and fulfilling time of life. Throughout the ages, poets have celebrated and revered youth. Youth's the season made for joys wrote John Gay. Byron also dwelt on the sweetness of youth:

A youth of today, a millionaire by 25 but with a keen sense of social equality. Btw, people have always complained about the 'youth of today'. Right back to Shakespearian times.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why put illegal immigration in quote marks like that as if it doesn’t exist? It does exist. The majority of immigrants arrive perfectly lawfully with visas and by prearrangement, to rejoin families or take up job offers etc. No problem whatever. People who arrive unofficially, including those in small boats, do so illegally. Yes, plenty will later be granted the right to stay and acquire legal status. Again, no problem. But there is such a thing as illegal immigration and it creates significant problems. As with the minority playing the welfare system, they create problems for those who genuinely deserve support and finance. You need to acknowledge that not everyone has good intentions, just as you rightly complain about the negative consequences for those who aren’t treated fairly by the system. Play fair and be treated fairly. That should be the principle to unite behind, and to strive for.

It is not illegal to come in a small boat and ask for asylum. I don't know how many times this has to be said. It is written in the United Nations convention on refugees 1952 as signed up to by Sir Winston Churchill.
Illegal immigrants are students who overstay their visas or just disappear when they land to work in illegal gangs. A vast difference.


Get them processed, deport the ones who don't pass the asylum criteria and let the rest build lives and work.

 

[Berty23]

It is not illegal to come in a small boat and ask for asylum. I don't know how many times this has to be said. It is written in the United Nations convention on refugees 1952 as signed up to by Sir Winston Churchill.
Illegal immigrants are students who overstay their visas or just disappear when they land to work in illegal gangs. A vast difference.


Get them processed, deport the ones who don't pass the asylum criteria and let the rest build lives and work.

Correct. It does my head in that this is not called out every single time it is said.

 

[Swimboy64]

Indeed. He's shoring up the blue rinse vote by promising to clamp down on scroungers. To do so he's going to create a new body that will decide whether someone can be signed off from work due to illness.

Let's get this clear. The GP will need to do the diagnosis. However, the decision about whether the patient can be signed off from work sick, particularly when the health issue is a mental health issue, will be decided by a new organization, as yet uncreated.

Wow. Just wow. This isn't simply imposing limits on benefits. It is taking healthcare decisions out of the hands of GPs and indeed hospital consultants. Wow.

Maybe it’s because it’s almost impossible to get to see GP

 

[WATFORD zero]

I am pretty sure 30 years ago my generation were called works shy and lazy - I am mid 40s. I would bet money the generation before were called the same. It is what people do to younger people.

Re things getting worse - at some point people will wonder whether there is a link between the massive decline in mental health services, increasing people struggling with cost of living, support in schools, plus of course record nhs waiting lists and people dropping out of work due to health issues.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato 4th century BC

 

[Weststander]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. It's the latest faddish excuse for so many things. Go back a few decades and it was a term you never heard. Anyone with real mental health issues was locked away in St Francis Hospital out of harms way. Those feeling a bit "down" were told to get over it and get back to work.

All you heard was suicide, suicide attempt, nervous breakdown, shell-shock.

Then knowledge and empathy grew.

Leaving an ever shrinking minority of thicko’s.

 

[Weststander]

A youth of today, a millionaire by 25 but with a keen sense of social equality. Btw, people have always complained about the 'youth of today'. Right back to Shakespearian times.

He has a great autobio, apparently.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Why put illegal immigration in quote marks like that as if it doesn’t exist? It does exist. The majority of immigrants arrive perfectly lawfully with visas and by prearrangement, to rejoin families or take up job offers etc. No problem whatever. People who arrive unofficially, including those in small boats, do so illegally. Yes, plenty will later be granted the right to stay and acquire legal status. Again, no problem. But there is such a thing as illegal immigration and it creates significant problems. As with the minority playing the welfare system, they create problems for those who genuinely deserve support and finance. You need to acknowledge that not everyone has good intentions, just as you rightly complain about the negative consequences for those who aren’t treated fairly by the system. Play fair and be treated fairly. That should be the principle to unite behind, and to strive for.

2 min 20 seconds which may be worth you watching



To quote the 1st Earl of Birkenhead, 'None the wiser, perhaps, my lord but certainly better informed'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. It's the latest faddish excuse for so many things. Go back a few decades and it was a term you never heard. Anyone with real mental health issues was locked away in St Francis Hospital out of harms way. Those feeling a bit "down" were told to get over it and get back to work.

They used to shoot them for cowardice. Now people understand PTSD.

I sincerely hope nobody you know has committed suicide.

 

[Taybha]

So Richy how did you sleep last night knowing you put the fear of christ into millions of disabled people you've decided to stick a knife in before you fk off to Mauritius in a couple of months .

 

[Westdene Seagull]

THIS ^^^^. I'm currently trying to claim JSA having being made redundant recently. I keep trying to book appointment at my 'local' Job Centre. I keep being told by the central DWP line that someone from the 'local' Job Centre will phone me back within three working hours. I'm currently on my FOURTH attempt. They have until midday today. Will the fvckers phone me ? Of course not. Then I need to sit in a phone queue for over an hour to the central line only to be told they've now "escalated" it. There really is a reason why DWP stands for Dicks, W@nkers and Pr1cks. Sunak has about as much knowledge of sorting benefits as I have of putting an elephant on the moon !

So just a quick update to show how useless Sunak's benefits system is - SIX calls to the central line with a promise of a phone back within three hours - all missed. Then THREE escalations on Friday with the promise of an one hour call back .... have a guess how many times I got a call back ? You've got it right ZERO times ! Now escalated to the DWP help desk ..... phone call due Monday but no real SLA ... woopdied fvcking do ! Look forward to the Tory knocking on my door in a few months.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Too many doctors are issuing sick notes so Sunak wants to strip their right to do so.

I’d love to know where these GPs are.

I thought they were an endangered species.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Let’s be honest, this isn’t just an attack on the poor, it’s an attack on immigrants who were continually told are stealing all our money.

So rather than Sunak and his govt doing anything about the issues at the root, he just lays the blame at the feet of the most vulnerable.

This party is pathetic and it’s a tragedy they’ve been able to run this country for so long.

 

[The Clamp]

The British Empire was built and maintained by colonials trading in slave labour and ripping other territories off.

Now that they can’t do that abroad anymore (not publicly anyway), they’re turning on their own. Us.

 

[BLOCK F]

I’d love to know where these GPs are.

I thought they were an endangered species.

There are quite a few GPs in our surgery, the trouble is they are almost all working part-time ( some very part -time)

 

[amexer]

There are quite a few GPs in our surgery, the trouble is they are almost all working part-time ( some very part -time)

agree All in our practice now work 3/4 days a week. Doesnt seem such a thing as a full time doctor anymore. Happy to earn £100k for 4 days.

 

[Zeberdi]

There are quite a few GPs in our surgery, the trouble is they are almost all working part-time ( some very part -time)

And many are simply on long term or repeated sick leave post-Pandemic, with stress, PTSD, Long-Covid, and debilitating exhaustion from understaffing problems.

I don’t think Sunak, being all chipper in their faces about how he wants to end ‘sicknote culture’ and end ‘over-medicalising’ the day to day difficulties of life will win friends and influence people working for the NHS somehow.