Stephen Fry on the Catholic Church.

[beorhthelm]

What you seem to be saying is "let's discuss the pros and cons of the religion, but you can't list any pros because that's just hiding the cons"

That is unfair.

im saying its unfair to use pros where they exist outside of and independently of religion. really, im not saying you cant list them, but you have to weight them accordingly, and this issue is gievn far too much weight by religion as they often try to imply its exculsive benefit. ok, so leave them in, but then acknowledge the work that is done outside the religion to bring balance. i just feel its used as a distraction.

 

[sten_super]

im saying its unfair to use pros where they exist outside of and independently of religion. really, im not saying you cant list them, but you have to weight them accordingly, and this issue is gievn far too much weight by religion as they often try to imply its exculsive benefit. ok, so leave them in, but then acknowledge the work that is done outside the religion to bring balance. i just feel its used as a distraction.

That's a rather skewed viewpoint. In that case can we not use the con of the church containing paedophiles because they exist outside of and independently of religion?

One of the good points of the Catholic church is that it encourages people to have a sense of belonging, and that sense of belonging can also encourage people to do good deeds that they may or may not do were it no for the church. It seems a stretch to suggest that all people that do good for the church would do it without the church (sheer weight of numbers suggests otherwise) so it's therefore fair to say that the Catholic church has probably encouraged some people to take part in charitable activities that they otherwise wouldn't do.

One of the bad points of the Catholic church is that it covered for paedophiles.

Seems a fairly balanced way of putting it to me.

 

[beorhthelm]

That's a rather skewed viewpoint. In that case can we not use the con of the church containing paedophiles because they exist outside of and independently of religion?
...

One of the bad points of the Catholic church is that it covered for paedophiles.

exactly. no is saying the Catholic church is bad only because it has paedophiles in its ranks, they are sadly in many areas of society. the criticism is they have hidden or ignored the problem. i dont recall any story about the department of eduction moving teachers off to new schools to deal with an accused teacher, they leave it to the law to deal with.

 

[bhaexpress]

I agree with you actually about the wealth of the vatican being incredibly hypocritical to a large extent. But I do think you almost need to contrast this with the hard work/simple lives of the clergy that serve the people.

That's perfectly true I agree. However I know from experience that many priests still tell parisoners of the dangers (yes the dangers) of contraception. Never mind the problems of over population. Granted that's a bit of a different issue but going back to the influence the Catholic Church has on those who live in poorer societies, how many British Catholics adhere to all of the Church's teachings ? Not that many now.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Tony Blair and his family have recently become Catholics. I agree though, having seen places like South America and the Philippines you're right.

They're well suited to each other, lying, egotistical and killers

 

[sten_super]

Pope Benedict says Church must 'do penance'
BBC News - Pope Benedict says Church must 'do penance'

The problem, for want of a better word, with the Church (and probably most religious bodies) is that they don't feel that they answer to anyone but the big man. The Pope, and the Catholic Church as a whole (although noticably not all individual members, see the response from various people of various standing within the Church), seemingly don't feel the need to respond to these allegations as they don't care what the people think of them, only the Lord. That's my supposition at least on why they've reacted so poorly to this crisis.

*warning: poor analogy to follow*
It is a bit like the US inability to bring China to heel over their remnibi valuation; the Chinese feel no need to justify themselves to anyone else so simply ignore the criticism.

 

[bhaexpress]

Pope Benedict says Church must 'do penance'
BBC News - Pope Benedict says Church must 'do penance'

The problem, for want of a better word, with the Church (and probably most religious bodies) is that they don't feel that they answer to anyone but the big man. The Pope, and the Catholic Church as a whole (although noticably not all individual members, see the response from various people of various standing within the Church), seemingly don't feel the need to respond to these allegations as they don't care what the people think of them, only the Lord. That's my supposition at least on why they've reacted so poorly to this crisis.

*warning: poor analogy to follow*
It is a bit like the US inability to bring China to heel over their remnibi valuation; the Chinese feel no need to justify themselves to anyone else so simply ignore the criticism.

That's a fairly good analogy actually. The problem is that ALL religions overlook the fact that any number of people don't agree with them for the simple reason they don't accept their particular higher authority.