Star Wars: The Force Awakens - with Spoilers - discussion thread

[Acker79]

It's only on the Sith side it's supposed to be 2. Yoda and Kenobi weren't together as a pair, Yoda died before Luke even became a Jedi, and Leia isn't a Jedi, so doesn't count (or if she does count, include her in your previous pairings, as she was there). It's not like a video game, it's not supposed to be balanced like that. The Sith had an Empire of troops, and still have the storm troopers, who outnumber the resistance.

I was being facetious. (But Yoda died after Luke returned from Jaba's palace where he announced himself as a Jedi Knight, so yoda died after luke became a jedi knight)

 

[jimhigham]

I saw The Force Awakens for the second time today. While it seems heresy among the 40+ age bracket to say so, I genuinely like this film as much as any in the series. It has the required thrills and adventure to make me feel 30 years younger, the humour feels sure footed and I personally feel that it has much more emotional heft than the originals (which felt exciting in 1983 but look a little leaden today).

I still love the originals for what they mean to me and my youth but Episode VII feels like a very promising start to the reboot. Granted the plot bears a striking similarity to A New Hope but if we all love that film so much it isn't the end of the world to see it again with a little 21st century polish applied.

Glass seven eighths full I reckon.

 

[brakespear]

Not as good as IV or V but better than VI (and obviously better than those other ones). Daisy Ridley's Rey is the best of the new people who aren't Captain Phasma imo (and also very beautiful ) strangely C3PO seemed very out of place in it and could have done without him really Was a bit rushed though scriptwise, stuff hurriedly introduced such as the superweapon. Also, being so used to the old films since going to see the original in 1977 it didn't really feel like Star Wars until Han and Chewie showed up so will be interesting to see if they can bed all the new characters in by the time Episode IX is shown.

So Han will come back as a ghost and Kylo is now the enemy that needs to be vanquished.

I don't think Han will come back - Harrison Ford has never made any secret of the fact that he doesn't enjoy playing him and it was no suprise really that he was killed off. I'd like to be wrong however

 

[Wozza]

Obi-Wan and Yoda are in TFA...

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens?iid=sr-link1

 

[brakespear]

And when I say it's not as good as IV or V I mean only just Especially love the lighting effects used on the lightsabres to make them look just that bit more real.

One question though (apologies if answered elsewhere) - who was the old fella Poe got the map off at the start of the film? The crawl mentions an 'old ally' or something but I didn't hear him named and didn't recognise the actor.

 

[Cold Gettin Dumb]

Saw the force awakens tonight with my family at the marina.
Absolutely loved it. The franchise is in safe hands imo.
Blown away by it. It was everything I hopedand more.

 

[Acker79]

I've been doing some more research into Darth Plagueis.

One thing to note is, in the 'legend universe' (i.e. the spin off novels from the original and prequel trilogy) he suspended the law of two.

He was always in the background, more interested in research into midi (and maxi) chlorians than running the galaxy in the immediate time (it may have been a longer term goal after successfully achieving immortality one way or another). It was only after Palpatine was elected Chancellor that he killed Plagueis (the night before taking over, apparently, after an evening of experimental opera).

In this 'legends universe' Anakin wasn't directly created by Plagueis. In fact, Anakin was created by the force in reaction to Plagueis unsuccessful attempts to create a dark force-strong life he could manipulate.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis/Legends (old continuity 'legends universe')


His 'new universe' biography is a lot less detailed. None of the back story carries over. Palpatine's story to Anakin is more to tempt Anakin to join the dark side to use the life saving powers to save Padme.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis (current continuity 'new universe')


Interestingly, the novel of so much of the legend universe's information, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis has this cover:

Doesn't that look a bit like Snoke talking to Kylo Ren?

 

[brakespear]

I've been doing some more research into Darth Plagueis.

One thing to note is, in the 'legend universe' (i.e. the spin off novels from the original and prequel trilogy) he suspended the law of two.

He was always in the background, more interested in research into midi (and maxi) chlorians than running the galaxy in the immediate time (it may have been a longer term goal after successfully achieving immortality one way or another). It was only after Palpatine was elected Chancellor that he killed Plagueis (the night before taking over, apparently, after an evening of experimental opera).

In this 'legends universe' Anakin wasn't directly created by Plagueis. In fact, Anakin was created by the force in reaction to Plagueis unsuccessful attempts to create a dark force-strong life he could manipulate.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis/Legends (old continuity 'legends universe')


His 'new universe' biography is a lot less detailed. None of the back story carries over. Palpatine's story to Anakin is more to tempt Anakin to join the dark side to use the life saving powers to save Padme.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis (current continuity 'new universe')


Interestingly, the novel of so much of the legend universe's information, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis has this cover:

Doesn't that look a bit like Snoke talking to Kylo Ren?

I've read half of that book but it's quite boring imo

 

[Milano]

I'd like to know how much they paid Mark Hammill?! Easiest X millions he's ever earned! He was 2nd name on the credits too!!

Very good film.

 

[Triggaaar]

The originals: Jedis: Obi Wan (died), Yoda (died), Anakin (died), Luke. Total number of jedi knights mentioned or alluded to: 4

New trilogy: Jedis: All the ones the scroll tells us Luke has been training

I'd say that was an increase of actual Jedi

But that's not what you said, you said there's been an increase in force-sensitive beings in the universe. That's not evident at all. Force sensitive kids are taught from an extremely young age, the council thought Anakin was too old. It wouldn't have made sense for Obiwan or Yoda to try and train young ones, when there was the Empire to face (they would have been quickly found and stopped), and they were waiting for Luke.

With that increase in actual jedi comes an increase in potential jedis that can be turned to become the villain, without a genetic link to Luke or Leia.

The potential for force sensitive people to be trained and turned to the dark side is always there. Potential Jedi are always around. But they don't train themselves, and they're not often as powerful as Luke.

Not relevant to the point I was making

You were using him as an example the Sith can appear from nowhere, but he wasn't a Sith.

My point was that these bad guys were not descendants of Skywalker. They were introduced out of nowhere, new to each film. Which meant Kylo Ren didn't have to be related to Skywalker. He, too, could have come from nowhere.

Let's not use 'bad guys' and Grievous as examples, as we're only talking about those who can use the force. And Dooku was new to the prequels, but at that time there were many Jedi he could have come from, so it was not a surprise, and indeed the Jedi knew him well. Following ROTJ there were not many Jedi - just one, and his sister, so new ones would need to be trained by someone from a young age. I agree that he certainly didn't have to be a Skywalker, he could have just been a force sensitive kid who was picked up by a Sith Lord, but my point is that I (and I'm sure many others) expected Leia and Han to have offspring, and that they would have a high potential to be a powerful Jedi, so I expected one of the characters to be their descendant. I don't think many knowledgeable fans were surprised (no offence meant, it doesn't matter you didn't guess it).

Non of the official pre-release information confirmed they had kid(s), there were clear suggestions that the two of them weren't together (they are shown to have different lives - han still the space pirate, Leia still the rebellion fighter.

Two good looking young people who'd saved each others lives and were in love - what the hell did you think they'd do? You don't discount it because it wasn't revealed in the trailers - of course it wouldn't be revealed.

Leia doesn't embrace the force. She didn't train to become a Jedi. It's easy to forget the force lives in her, too.

To an extremely casual (stoned and asleep) fan, perhaps, but that's not us is it?

"You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time, you'll learn to use it as I have.
The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it.
Yes. It's you, Leia.
I know. Somehow I've always known."

And we're going to forget that she carries the force? Come on Acker, are you a fan or not?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

So you think there's a reasonable chance Rey is older than Luke. Oh come on.

The problem with this argument, of course, being it relies on your belief that Anakin was created by Plagueis being a fact

No that's not a problem with the argument. Where you quote me I'm saying Anakin was created by the force, it doesn't have to be by Plagueis. Everything in the movies says that he is. Shmi says there was no father, and when Obi-wan and Qui-Gon looked at Ani's blood results the midi-chlorian count was off the charts, and they believed Shmi - they believed he was conceived by the midi-chlorians. But even if he was not created by the force, the point I'm arguing is that it wasn't Rey - she's not older than Luke. It's crazy to think she's been around all that time without knowing she a bit different.

 

[Triggaaar]

I was being facetious. (But Yoda died after Luke returned from Jaba's palace where he announced himself as a Jedi Knight, so yoda died after luke became a jedi knight)

You're arguing with the wrong person. It wasn't Luke's place to decide whether or not he was a Jedi. When he returned to Yoda:

"No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.
Then I am a Jedi.
Not yet. One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader.
Then, only then, a Jedi will you be."

 

[Triggaaar]

One question though (apologies if answered elsewhere) - who was the old fella Poe got the map off at the start of the film? The crawl mentions an 'old ally' or something but I didn't hear him named and didn't recognise the actor.

Lor San Tekka.

No, me neither.

I've been doing some more research into Darth Plagueis.

One thing to note is, in the 'legend universe' (i.e. the spin off novels from the original and prequel trilogy) he suspended the law of two.

I only know about the films, so can't comment on anything else (like Darth Maul being saved and put back together or whatever happened).

In this 'legends universe' Anakin wasn't directly created by Plagueis. In fact, Anakin was created by the force in reaction to Plagueis unsuccessful attempts to create a dark force-strong life he could manipulate.

Well at least we agree that he was created by the force

Palpatine's story to Anakin is more to tempt Anakin to join the dark side to use the life saving powers to save Padme.

I can go with that.

I'd like to know how much they paid Mark Hammill?! Easiest X millions he's ever earned! He was 2nd name on the credits too!!

Less than Alec Guinness got for The Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ.

 

[Algernon]

I went to see this last night at the O2.
I liked it as it was a return to the style of the original Star Wars film.
I didn't expect it to be.

I have no idea what that lot above me are on about.

 

[jimhigham]

Lor San Tekka is played by the venerable Swedish actor Max Von Sydow (who also played Ming The Merciless in Flash Gordon if you cast your minds back). The guy is now 86. Legend.

 

[brakespear]

Lor San Tekka is played by the venerable Swedish actor Max Von Sydow (who also played Ming The Merciless in Flash Gordon if you cast your minds back). The guy is now 86. Legend.

Oh OK - that was about the last time I saw him at the cinema (1980?) so maybe why I didn't recognise him

Lor San Tekka.

No, me neither.

Ta

 

[herecomesaregular]

double post

 

[herecomesaregular]

...

 

[Charles 'Charley' Charles]

Personally think that the idea of Ren removing his mask was a good one, now he has the scars and possibly the need to wear a mask/helmet now. Almost as if to say this is how you should of told the Anakin to Vader transformation. Secondly for a highly trained Stormtrooper, thought Captain Phasma lowering the shield in that manner was bit of a cop out. Really enjoyed the film though, but to further the above discussion ice read couple of rumours that Hayden Christianson has and is filming sentences for the next one.

 

[Giraffe]

Saw the film earlier today and liked it a lot.

From the opening of just sitting in a cinema and seeing Star Wars come up on the big screen through to Hans Solo's sad demise it was all very good.

I thought like others the unmasking of the villain so early was a little odd but probably needed for the Solo death scene.

As for the Luke storyline if Rey (or whatever she is called) is her daughter which seems a fair bet, who is her mother? I can't help but wonder if when Hans Solo' son turned to the dark side he killed her perhaps?

Liked the new droid, but wanted more of R2D2 than we got. Also how old Leia looked shocked me.

Chewy and Hans Solo stole all the funny lines though.

Would have liked a mention of Yoda but perhaps that is still to come.

Film was good, perhaps too complex for some younger viewers to follow perhaps but maybe they didn't need to follow it all to enjoy it?

May go back and see it again as did enjoy it and may help with the story, suspect I missed the odd little things.

One final point do you know anywhere, or whether any cinema has ever done, food free showings. Ban the food so that classic cinema moments like this are not ruined by some idiot dropping his popcorn or maltesers or whatever!!!

 

[deenomeet]

I watched in 3D, thought it was bloody amazing.I even managed to follow the story! Does this make me a Jedi?