Stand up for poppies

[Triggaaar]

Were they not men ?

If you feel that all men, no matter how evil, deserve to be remembered in a positive way, that's your choice, but I don't remember evil men as I do those who innocently gave their lives.

(or in the last phase of the war BOYS)

I don't believe any boys were in charge and guilty of war crimes, so I wasn't really referring to them.

 

[wayneb]

A fuss over nothing,are you serious?

 

[Simster]

the rules are quite clear but don't seem to be enforced unless it's england

This "everyone hates England" stuff is getting tiresome.

How on Earth would you even know if, say, FIFA had outlawed something similar by the Serbian or Albanian, or Indonesian FAs?

We had our chance to rule the world and f***ed it up. We've fallen miles behind on the pitch with crap coaching and dinosaur tactics and we've made enemies from within FIFA stemming back to the days when WE ran it. When Sir Stanley Rous chaired FIFA, he ORDERED the Russian's to play a World Cup play-off game at Chile's national stadium in Santiago. The fact that the Russians had complained because General Pinochet had been using it as a death camp the previous month seemed to cut no ice with Rous.

Utterly shameful, and puts into perspective this crap "oh FIFA are only doing this because it's England" rant.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

This "everyone hates England" stuff is getting tiresome.

How on Earth would you even know if, say, FIFA had outlawed something similar by the Serbian or Albanian, or Indonesian FAs?

i don't, but they haven't outlawed it in several other national teams (israel, turkey, portugal to name 3 off the top of my head)

i don't think "everyone hates england", but i do think that the FA and FIFA have a slightly strained relationship

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

are there any examples of FIFA banning these symbols for any other national team?

 

[tezz79]

Just broke that the team will be wearing them on black armbands on Saturday

 

[Was not Was]

Well, I hope the numpties who turned this into a big issue are happy now the EDL are involved.

The EDL action has shown that there is a political aspect to the poppy, showing FIFA to be not only consistent but sensible.

Net result:
The odious EDL get publicity, fuelled by the populist position-taking of the likes of Cameron
The (not quite as odious but not far short) FIFA look wise.

I am not impressed.

 

[matthew]

Think they say England players can wear poppies on their arm bands

 

[ATFC Seagull]

i don't, but they haven't outlawed it in several other national teams (israel, turkey, portugal to name 3 off the top of my head)

I see what you are saying, but those ARE the national emblems of those countries and therefore incorporated onto their badges, and not an additional political statement. I know its a very blurred line etc etc but there is a difference.

 

[TS90]

Disgusting display of a victim mentality by most people over this - it's been blown so far out of proportion it's untrue. Everyone wants an excuse to berate FIFA, despite them being very fair, with what they're allowing the England set up to do in regards to displays of remembrance.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

I see what you are saying, but those ARE the national emblems of those countries and therefore incorporated onto their badges, and not an additional political statement. I know its a very blurred line etc etc but there is a difference.

i agree in principle, but the law doesn't state that you're allowed these symbols if they're part of your national emblem.....it says that these symbols are not allowed, there doesn't seem to be a blurred line, but a very clear line between what is allowed and what isn't

for the record i have no problem in israel having the star of david on their shirts........i have a problem with the "one rule for one, one for another" attitude

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

anyway, they've done a u-turn now so it doesn't matter

 

[ATFC Seagull]

i agree in principle, but the law doesn't state that you're allowed these symbols if they're part of your national emblem.....it says that these symbols are not allowed, there doesn't seem to be a blurred line, but a very clear line between what is allowed and what isn't

for the record i have no problem in israel having the star of david on their shirts........i have a problem with the "one rule for one, one for another" attitude

There is a difference though - the star of David relates to the ethnic and political identity of the nation, not an political event (or events) that the country has been involved in. I am confident that if they chose to put a reference to the Arab-Israeli conflict on their shirts, FIFA would step in.

The cross of St George is both religious, nationalist and is associated with conflict in history, but I am 100% confident that if the FA wanted to switch the 3 lions to that, FIFA would allow it.

 

[DerbyGull]

Commonwealth Soldiers I believe.

Stand Corrected, but most people will be thinking of their own countrymen.

You small minded idiot.

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

Some wars are necessary my friend so yes you remember those that have fallen, but you serve them a grave injustice by not understanding the reasons for them going to war.

The great war was necessary. We're also remembering servicemen/women who have lost their lives in Afghan/Iraq, wars that to many including myself were not worth Tony Blair sending other parents sons and daughters to spill their blood.

Spot on. The 'smal minded idiot' bit was a bit harsh though. I quite like DerbyGull.

cool

Total balls,.... try going to a rememberance parade,.... you will see in London especially that there is rememberance for ALL who fell, and attendance by many fo the 'opposition' from time to time. It is a fully inclusive, emotional, non-political, non-religious, non-commercial ideal.... designed to do nothing else other than remind and remember those who have served and fallen.

Can't argue with that.

Then do yourself a favour and dont wear it anywhere near me then .

PS For the record , maybe FIFA have got a point, and I only wish people would get a little more defensive at more genuine insults to the poppy.

I'm sure you'll see a few around town wearing them.

The red poppy is a symbol of remembrance rather than 'peace' - that's why it's not political. Unlike the white poppy which IS political, and it isn't a symbol of peace, it's worn as a deliberate political statement and is designed to provoke anger.

I'm no supporter of Britain's foreign wars (and I'll include Ireland in that), but you won't catch me wearing one.

The quite poppy is quite subtle though, it's not like waving a placard saying all allied soldiers are going to hell.

The white poppy is at best ill informed and at worse an abomination because it is a political device that has hijacked the Act of Remembrance. I’m ex-services and it doesn’t just mean Brits, a quick walk around El-Alamien would show you the number of Muslims and Hindu’s of the Indian army that died in North Africa.

Civilians? Well if you care to watch the march past of the Cenotaph on Sunday you’ll note that many laying wreaths were civilians who worked as Fire Wardens, Ambulance drivers etc.

The enemy dead. A dear old chap I knew fought in the North African campaign and he used to say that the dead of all sides should have been buried together because as far as he was concerned you’d wouldn’t fine better men.

Remember them all because they are a stark reminder of the failure of the political progress, they highlight the greed and envy of those who should know better.

Good post, though I don't think the white poppy is trying to hijack anything. For me the white symbolises what the 1,000,000 'not in our name' marched for.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I have this poem hanging in my halllway, I know not the author or when written but please read.



The Inquisitive Mind of A Child

Why are they selling poppies mummy?
Selling poppies in the town today
The poppies child are flowers of love
For the men who marched away

But why have they chosen a poppy Mummy?
Why not a beautiful rose?
Because my child, men fought and died
In the fields where poppies grow

But why are the poppies so red Mummy?
Why are the poppies so red?
Red is the colour of blood my child
For the blood our soldiers shed

The heart of the poppy is black Mummy
Why does it have to be black?
Black my child is the symbol of grief
For the men who never came back

But why Mummy are you crying so?
Your tears are giving you pain
My tears are my fears for you my child
For the world is FORGETTING AGAIN

Its by John F. Willcocks (1918-2007)

Apart from the EDL/BNP I can't think of anyone else British I want LESS wearing poppies in support of the fallen heroes.

A bunch of overpaid, self indulgent yobs wearing a symbol for people who gave up their lives for the greater good.

By more symbolic if they gave a months wages to the charity.

 

[W.C.]

So do I.
The whole matter of poppy wearing to remember those who lost their lives in war has become something of a huge, almost compulsory out of control,dare I say it,bandwagon.I am in my 60's and like many others lost relatives in both World Wars and had others who survived.However,in the last 10 years or so ,I have noticed that poppies are on sale for weeks before Remembrance Day and those on tv are wearing them from about mid October onwards.No-one either visiting tv studios as a guest on a programme or those presenting would dare not wear a poppy for fear of being branded a social outcast.To me, this in many ways dilutes what some of Remembrance Day should be about........freedom.
I can remember from my childhood at school when we had the opportunity to buy a poppy during the week preceding Remembrance Day and the whole matter of remembering those who died was a quieter more dignified process.It isn't necessary to wear a poppy 24/7 to pay respects.
Anyway,I am off the subject question a bit.Trouble is with allowing the poppy to be worn, is where does it all stop?In future,other countries may have matters they may want to remember that are equally as important to them as a poppy may be to this country.Whilst many may say the poppy is not a political statement, it may well be viewed differently by others.I believe there is to be a minute's silence before the match,which is fine.Why not leave it at that.It doesn't mean nobody cares if the players are not wearing embroidered poppies on their shirts.

Absolutely agree with all of this. Very good post.