Southern Rail STRIKE details

[beorhthelm]

...they will not be trained how to evacuate during emergency situations on the running line. I wonder how passengers evacuate a train on a platform -that's right - they just get off!! They won't be taught emergency procedures - how to lay track circuit clips, detonators in the event of emergencies etc.

out of interest, how often are the emergency procedures applied? i know of two incidents where everyone remained on the train for hours, both Southern services (not GW or Thameslink) so are they even used?

 

[beorhthelm]

There is a way forward where there is an independent enquiry/investigation into the safety of DOO and the onward roles of Guards on trains and both sides agree to abide by the findings.

and if the investigation finds DOO to be safe, the union will accept it? i thought there had been some report in this area recently that did conclude DOO it was safe assuming certain measures in place.

 

[Deadly Danson]

out of interest, how often are the emergency procedures applied? i know of two incidents where everyone remained on the train for hours, both Southern services (not GW or Thameslink) so are they even used?

Very rarely but that's not the point of course. I myself have laid detonators once and been over them a couple of times so it does happen.

 

[Ernest]

out of interest, how often are the emergency procedures applied? i know of two incidents where everyone remained on the train for hours, both Southern services (not GW or Thameslink) so are they even used?

Frequently , how often are airline safety procedures used ? But you're glad they're there the time that they are needed .

 

[Ernest]

Very rarely but that's not the point of course. I myself have laid detonators once and been over them a couple of times so it does happen.

but as a guard there are many times you do something that would avoid a problem or deal with something such as a fatality that if the driver was on his own the punters would be left miles from nowhere with no communication

 

[pasty]

Yes I do. I commute every single day from Crowborough to London Bridge on a line that has been shut completely on every strike to date. I assume this will once again be the case during these five days.

In which case I apologise for my "glib" comment, and you have my every sympathy

 

[Deadly Danson]

but as a guard there are many times you do something that would avoid a problem or deal with something such as a fatality that if the driver was on his own the punters would be left miles from nowhere with no communication

100% right. As recently as this week our line lost power and we were stuck there for well over an hour. Firstly, the guard was invaluable in walking backwards and forwards through the train and answering any queries - obviously this was something i couldn't do other than over the p.a.. Had the power not been returned to my section of line we would have had to perform an evacuation (we had got to the point with the signaller of asking for numbers on board). Again, this was a 12 coach train - virtually impossible to do this safely on my own. There have been a multitude of fatalities in the last few weeks and the guard is invaluable in assisting the public and an obviously shocked driver in these instances.
But you're right - on a daily basis the guard often acts proactively to help minimize or foresee problems- often unseen by the public.

 

[Arthur]

In which case I apologise for my "glib" comment, and you have my every sympathy

Fair play. Apology accepted.

 

[beorhthelm]

100% right. As recently as this week our line lost power and we were stuck there for well over an hour. Firstly, the guard was invaluable in walking backwards and forwards through the train and answering any queries - obviously this was something i couldn't do other than over the p.a..

?? the battery back up failed? i have been on a train when power cut and the communication and lighting continued for some two hours before it went out (sat there for nearly 3 hours in the end). and have fatalities been falsely reported under the "staff shortage" excuse? not saying they haven't happened, but i cant recall the last time delays wasnt either staff or power/signal failure.

 

[Ernest]

?? the battery back up failed? i have been on a train when power cut and the communication and lighting continued for some two hours before it went out (sat there for nearly 3 hours in the end). and have fatalities been falsely reported under the "staff shortage" excuse? not saying they haven't happened, but i cant recall the last time delays wasnt either staff or power/signal failure.

You're trying to argue something you haven't got a real idea about against people who have done years and years of training and doing the job that people now try and devalue

 

[Deadly Danson]

?? the battery back up failed? i have been on a failed power train and the communication and lighting continued for some two hours before it went out. and have fatalities been falsely reported under the "staff shortage" excuse? not saying they haven't happened, but i cant recall the last time delays wasnt either staff or power/signal failure.

No this was a fairly major electrical fire. Of course the fatalities have happened - the last one being Monday I think when someone just lay down on the tracks at Angmering. And before that Chichester when someone was trying to retrieve a lighter (!) whilst laying down with his head over the platform edge - the train won. And every day there are a whole host of things that screw up the service- illnesses on board, level crossing failures, signal failures, trespassers etc
Honestly, regardless of who runs it, as we all know the Southern network is only ever one incident away from meltdown given the number of trains that use it, the number of passengers, the lack of infrastructure investment, the age of tunnels, viaducts etc and the lack of alternative lines so to make it even halfway work you need a train operator who is 100% on the ball, who employs enough staff to cope with disruption, doesn't piss off every single member of it's workforce, has proper plans in place for disruption, employs sufficient staff in Control and fitters to fix the trains etc. Obviously GTR are very much not that company. But whoever ran the service would still have all these problems (and Network Rail) to deal with.

 

[pearl]

The guards are prepared to lose a weeks pay over a health and safety issue. They have my support

 

[beorhthelm]

No this was a fairly major electrical fire. Of course the fatalities have happened - the last one being Monday I think when someone just lay down on the tracks at Angmering. And before that Chichester when someone was trying to retrieve a lighter (!) whilst laying down with his head over the platform edge - the train won. And every day there are a whole host of things that screw up the service- illnesses on board, level crossing failures, signal failures, trespassers etc
Honestly, regardless of who runs it, as we all know the Southern network is only ever one incident away from meltdown given the number of trains that use it, the number of passengers, the lack of infrastructure investment, the age of tunnels, viaducts etc and the lack of alternative lines so to make it even halfway work you need a train operator who is 100% on the ball, who employs enough staff to cope with disruption, doesn't piss off every single member of it's workforce, has proper plans in place for disruption, employs sufficient staff in Control and fitters to fix the trains etc. Obviously GTR are very much not that company. But whoever ran the service would still have all these problems (and Network Rail) to deal with.

thanks for responding. i'd have been surprised if there hadnt been, just i dont recall it as reason for any recent delays.

you may be surprised that i do support the notion of guards, i would rather have them than not. im just skeptical about some of the safety arguments. its about jobs, and as they are currently promised continued employment, future job loses. clearly thats on the agenda as we've seen on the other lines. in my mind the compromise would be to gain agreement that the train supervisor role would be safety trained and required except in exceptional circumstances, i.e. caused by delays, not rostered to cover holiday/sick/short staff what ever. and what annoys me more than anything is that the union dont seem to make that case, instead of making PR campaign passengers can engage in, they resort to strikes which creates negative cycle. and it does make sense to have a change of role, shirley you can see the 1701 from Victoria being delayed or cancelled because the guard is stuck at East Croydon following signal problems, when the train and line is equipped to allow the driver to operate the doors and get to EC to collect guard there, is a daft state of affairs. i think we can all agree the root problems are in the in network and infrastructure itself and there's little hope of the spending (or additional disruption) to resolve that.

 

[DFL JCL]

Surely the absolute last thing that GTR want is to resolve this dispute. What on earth are they going to blame the appalling train service they run on if not this dispute?

 

[Yoda]

?? the battery back up failed? i have been on a train when power cut and the communication and lighting continued for some two hours before it went out (sat there for nearly 3 hours in the end). and have fatalities been falsely reported under the "staff shortage" excuse? not saying they haven't happened, but i cant recall the last time delays wasnt either staff or power/signal failure.

Coastway West on Monday was shut down due to a fatality at Angmering at about 16.30-17.00. They stopped one of the Littlehampton bound trains at Durrington to allow people off. Line wasn't open again until after 19:00.

 

[Stuart Munday]

I've got a Southern Keycard , I used to load my journey onto the card and then go and get the train to save queuing, then the system wouldn't let me do it the same day so I had to do it the day before.

I loaded my card on Monday to travel the next day and it didn't work but managed to get through the barriers and thought it was just an off day, I did the same thing on Wednesday and the card didn't work again even though I had a receipt.

I spoke to somebody at the station who checked my card, he said that I had done it correctly but due to more and more people using the cards it was taking 48 hours to go onto the card. Does anyone who works for Southern know if this is correct if so its ridiculous, how can they get rid of ticket offices when it takes 48 hours to put a journey on your card which should be instant.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]759042239809130496[/tweet]

 

[perseus]

West Coastway is being impossible and the strike hasn't even started. Forum reports of people waiting two hours at Brighton. Even the buses are not that bad.

I anticipate problems getting to games even without a strike.

 

[Lower West Stander]

The guards are prepared to lose a weeks pay over a health and safety issue. They have my support

That's nice to know.

Are you a commuter?

 

[Ernest]

West Coastway is being impossible and the strike hasn't even started. Forum reports of people waiting two hours at Brighton. Even the buses are not that bad.

I anticipate problems getting to games even without a strike.

Buses going on strike

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/14658206.Brighton_and_Hove_bus_drivers_vote_for_industrial_action/