Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Frutos]

That is just ****ing ridiculous. How to lose public support in one easy lesson.

Apparently they 'share the anger and frustration of passengers' according that article - if this is supposed to be their demonstration of that shared feeling, the whole thing is more ****ed than I thought.

 

[beorhthelm]

my frustration will be aimed at the conductors if they go ahead. i'll be putting in for WFH, so commiserations to the other passengers who'll have to endure this, or suffer the consequences to their own employment.

 

[Ernest]

Seeing as SASTA can't even be bothered to turn up to scheduled meetings what else can the RMT do but try and force the government to act ?

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said;
“This action has been forced on us by the arrogance and inaction of Govia Thameslink and the Government who have made it clear that they have no interest in resolving this dispute or in tackling the daily chaos on Southern.
"Our fight is with the company and the Government who have dragged this franchise into total meltdown. We share the anger and frustration of passengers and we cannot sit back while jobs and safety are compromised on these dangerously overcrowded trains.
"It is disgraceful that neither the company or the Government are prepared to engage and are looking to bully through the extension of DOO and the attack on the guards set for 21st August. They should wake up and get round the table now as an urgent priority."

RMT offered a three month pause to action if the company took the gun away from the guards heads and agreed to suspend their proposals and allow space for talks to take place. That request has been kicked back in our faces.
The union wrote to new Transport Secretary Chris Grayling asking for direct talks after he said it was a priority to sort out the chaos on Southern. That letter has been ignored.

 

[pasty]

Do you know what....I totally disagree. I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't care how it gets sorted...JUST ****ING GET IT SORTED". Neither side prepared to budge so one side or another needed to make a move. As I said yesterday if it's Southern then they just need to get on with it. This is clearly a huge move by the union but good luck to them.

You don't commute for work by train do you.

I kind of agree where you are coming from in your "just ****ing get it sorted" comment, but going on a 5 day strike will

a: achieve sod all
b: exacerbate the current situation
c: cause an incredible inconvenience to the very people (the passengers) that the unions "claim" to be doing this for.

 

[Frampler]

Seeing as SASTA can't even be bothered to turn up to scheduled meetings what else can the RMT do but try and force the government to act ?

The Government will act by bringing the punitive measures in the Trade Union Act 2016 into force (it's been sitting on the statute book since May so they could grab big headlines when they bring it in), then it will start banging on about how 90% support isn't enough of a democratic mandate. They are pathologically opposed to trade unions and they think they gain in PR terms from every big strike.

 

[beorhthelm]

Seeing as SASTA can't even be bothered to turn up to scheduled meetings what else can the RMT do but try and force the government to act ?

and if they intend to "go to war" over this and force it through, they will act to force through the measure to switch to DOO. then either the drivers will have to strike or the conductors will then be train hosts or whatever. either way this action will accomplish nothing by the unions own admission, just inconvenience the public.

 

[Ernest]

and if they intend to "go to war" over this and force it through, they will act to force through the measure to switch to DOO. then either the drivers will have to strike or the conductors will then be train hosts or whatever. either way this action will accomplish nothing by the unions own admission, just inconvenience the public.

If you fight you may win, if you don't fight, you won't win

Bob Crow RIP

 

[albionite]

and if they intend to "go to war" over this and force it through, they will act to force through the measure to switch to DOO. then either the drivers will have to strike or the conductors will then be train hosts or whatever. either way this action will accomplish nothing by the unions own admission, just inconvenience the public.

Drivers want to strike over this, but can't due to gtr taking them to court.

 

[Ernest]

Drivers want to strike over this, but can't due to gtr taking them to court.

Drivers are doing a pretty good job supporting the RMT anyway without striking #comrades

 

[beorhthelm]

If you fight you may win, if you don't fight, you won't win

i suppose thats fair point. just expect the public to side against. as for Crow, i think Cash is channeling him in the words they use.

 

[beorhthelm]

any news on the Network Rail strike? then there's the platform staff action too. #summerofsoutherndiscontent

 

[Deadly Danson]

i suppose thats fair point. just expect the public to side against. as for Crow, i think Cash is channeling him in the words they use.

I disagree. On a daily basis I would say for every one person who has a go when their train is late and blames the guards, at least 10 will say to me that, whilst they are tired and annoyed at the inconvenience, they blame GTR and the DFT. Only the most devout anti-union Tory could possibly think it a good idea to remove a safety critical person from the train at a time when more and more people are using them.

As regards the strike - judging by the reaction on NSC alone, the impact of the threat of this strike may well put added pressure on GTR and the government to come back round the table for proper talks, which of course is the aim of the RMT. Don't be surprised if GTR suddenly agree to the very sensible suggestion of the RMT to postpone the implementation of the extension of DOO for 3 months to allow time for talks.

 

[Ernest]

I disagree. On a daily basis I would say for every one person who has a go when their train is late and blames the guards, at least 10 will say to me that, whilst they are tired and annoyed at the inconvenience, they blame GTR and the DFT. Only the most devout anti-union Tory could possibly think it a good idea to remove a safety critical person from the train at a time when more and more people are using them.

As regards the strike - judging by the reaction on NSC alone, the impact of the threat of this strike may well put added pressure on GTR and the government to come back round the table for proper talks, which of course is the aim of the RMT. Don't be surprised if GTR suddenly agree to the very sensible suggestion of the RMT to postpone the implementation of the extension of DOO for 3 months to allow time for talks.

Hopefully Foulds & co might actually turn up for a meeting

 

[Frutos]

Don't be surprised if GTR suddenly agree to the very sensible suggestion of the RMT to postpone the implementation of the extension of DOO for 3 months to allow time for talks.

Wouldn't surprise me either, and it's probably the best option rail users can hope for in the short term.

God knows when this will actually be fully resolved though, as neither the RMT nor SASTA seem willing to moderate their respective positions in any way and as usual the travelling public are stuck in the middle.

 

[pasty]

Only the most devout anti-union Tory could possibly think it a good idea to remove a safety critical person from the train at a time when more and more people are using them.

I trust the answer to this is somewhere on this thread, and I am not picking an argument with you, I just have a genuine question.

If, as we have been told, the "Guard" is NOT actually going to be removed from the train, but in future would still be on the train in a different capacity but without door opening responsibilities, how is this affecting the safety of the passengers? If you are telling me that guards are to be removed from trains, and NOT replaced, then fair enough I agree it has an impact on safety, but not if they are still on the train but with a slightly different role.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I trust the answer to this is somewhere on this thread, and I am not picking an argument with you, I just have a genuine question.

If, as we have been told, the "Guard" is NOT actually going to be removed from the train, but in future would still be on the train in a different capacity but without door opening responsibilities, how is this affecting the safety of the passengers? If you are telling me that guards are to be removed from trains, and NOT replaced, then fair enough I agree it has an impact on safety, but not if they are still on the train but with a slightly different role.

For a start GTR have said, that during times of disruption where the guard has been displaced that train will be allowed to run DOO. I can't remember many days without disruption so as time goes on more and more trains will just leave without a guard/OBS until the role becomes defunct (as it did on Thameslink and Gatwick Express when their guards were turned into onboard supervisors). Secondly, the training has moved from (I think) 12 weeks down to 3 weeks due to the removal of safety critical functions. I heard yesterday that the new On board supervisors were being trained how to evacuate a train - ON PLATFORMS ONLY!! as they will not be trained how to evacuate during emergency situations on the running line. I wonder how passengers evacuate a train on a platform -that's right - they just get off!! They won't be taught emergency procedures - how to lay track circuit clips, detonators in the event of emergencies etc.And that's all of course before we get to the closing of the door issue which has been discussed on here in depth.

 

[Arthur]

You don't commute for work by train do you.

Yes I do. I commute every single day from Crowborough to London Bridge on a line that has been shut completely on every strike to date. I assume this will once again be the case during these five days.

I kind of agree where you are coming from in your "just ****ing get it sorted" comment, but going on a 5 day strike will

a: achieve sod all

What has been achieved so far with the 24/48 hour walk outs?

b: exacerbate the current situation

Can it really get any worse than it is currently?

c: cause an incredible inconvenience to the very people (the passengers) that the unions "claim" to be doing this for.

Well that is true but that has been the case all along. The biggest loser out of all of this is the passenger. The union can claim what they like. The only thing they are interested in is the jobs of their members. They have little to no interest in the whole safety drum they keep banging. I've no problem with that. Just wish they were honest about it. The government need to step in which they haven't so more drastic measures are required.

As I said I've given up caring who's fault it is just get it sorted. If that involves sacking all the guards and getting new ones in or it means the guards won't work until its sorted then so be it.

 

[beorhthelm]

I disagree. On a daily basis I would say for every one person who has a go when their train is late and blames the guards, at least 10 will say to me that, whilst they are tired and annoyed at the inconvenience, they blame GTR and the DFT.

do you only talk to staff? the conversations i hear in the carriages and at work don't know GTR exists and don't know of DFT involvement. they blame Southern and guards as those are the parties they see and know. most understand the action in relation to the aims to remove conductors and introduce DOO, which people seem a bit "meh" about (but then i work in IT and most people suggest the drivers could go too). the safety argument fall on deaf ears when other services run without guards, nothing to do with being anti-union or tory.

i recall reading some compromise that sounded interesting about commitment to maintaining safety training for the train host whatever, is that a thing? delaying 3mths is just delaying the inevitable, and a bit pointless unless the union (or GTR) is going to accommodate some ground.

 

[Ernest]

do you only talk to staff? the conversations i hear in the carriages and at work don't know GTR exists and don't know of DFT involvement. they blame Southern and guards as those are the parties they see and know. most understand the action in relation to the aims to remove conductors and introduce DOO, which people seem a bit "meh" about (but then i work in IT and most people suggest the drivers could go too).

i recall reading some compromise that sounded interesting about commitment to maintaining safety training for the train host whatever, is that a thing? delaying 3mths is just delaying the inevitable, and a bit pointless unless the union (or GTR) is going to accommodate some ground.

Remember this is not just Southern, same dispute and strikes on Scotrail, the DfT think they can fight the RMT/ASLEF and the commuters/leisure travellers are collateral damage but it is not quite turning out the way Peter Wilkinson wanted it to.

There is a way forward where there is an independent enquiry/investigation into the safety of DOO and the onward roles of Guards on trains and both sides agree to abide by the findings.

 

[Deadly Danson]

do you only talk to staff? the conversations i hear in the carriages and at work don't know GTR exists and don't know of DFT involvement. they blame Southern and guards as those are the parties they see and know. most understand the action in relation to the aims to remove conductors and introduce DOO, which people seem a bit "meh" about (but then i work in IT and most people suggest the drivers could go too). the safety argument fall on deaf ears when other services run without guards.

No, I've lost count of the amount of passengers who have come up to me in recent weeks whilst we've all been waiting for a train or during disruption or when i'm been walking to my train who've said they are on the conductor's side. Only a couple of days ago, some old fella who had been waiting a hell of a long time for his train stopped me as I was walking to my train, gave me a friendly pat on the back, said - "we're on your side" and walked off. There has been some hostility of course which I totally understand given the appalling service offered but I think most people appreciate and understand what is going on.