Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Spiros]

As I've tried explaining, if a Driver works overtime these days it means he pays most of it in tax hence SASTA having to offer bribes such as £140 on top just to sign on for overtime. Most Drivers don't want extra pay but extra time off due to the nature of shift work and the fatigue it causes.

In the days of British Rail, overtime was part of the wages, basic pay was useless and your money was made up of allowances, shift payments and overtime. That finished with privatisation when staff became salaried and earnt the same money without the need of working overtime hence so few willing to do it even if industrial relations were perfect

Thanks for that - it's the first time I've seen it stated that clearly. Having seen elsewhere that the basic salary of a driver on Southern is £49K then I'm not surprised that they have less incentive to work overtime as they are higher earners paying 40% tax on any extra payment. If the way they're treated is anything like the way SASTA management treat the 'customers' then I'm surprised that they only stopped doing overtime now

 

[albionite]

So that rather goes against the safety argument. That reads like they're flexing their muscles because they can. I can't see the government or Charlie Horton having that. Makes me think it will be a long dispute that will eventually be settled with more anti-union legislation. That didn't end up working out so well long term for the miners.

Not really, no one wants to go that extra mile for the company. They have been bribing drivers with a £100 sign on and giving perks like work 4 hours and we will pay you 10. This has papered some of the cracks to make the situation not look as bad as it is.
Staff are leaving the company faster than they can train new ones,
This mess is down to the fact southern wasn't expecting to win this franchise so leading up to it they stopped their recruitment

 

[Hastings gull]

As I've tried explaining, if a Driver works overtime these days it means he pays most of it in tax hence SASTA having to offer bribes such as £140 on top just to sign on for overtime. Most Drivers don't want extra pay but extra time off due to the nature of shift work and the fatigue it causes.

In the days of British Rail, overtime was part of the wages, basic pay was useless and your money was made up of allowances, shift payments and overtime. That finished with privatisation when staff became salaried and earnt the same money without the need of working overtime hence so few willing to do it even if industrial relations were perfect

From the horse's mouth. A fascinating insight into how well they are doing - and using their muscle again. I would think millions of folk would love to be in a position whereby 40% tax kicks in. So privatisation meant that they did really well, and yet you knock it! And it was not so long ago when we had a driver on here telling us that drivers were more than happy to do DOO overtime, as it was so lucrative.
Well done , my friend, you are singularly the reason why there has been a clear shift on here from blaming Southern, (who, I am sure, are by no means innocent) to at the very least realising that the rail unions also present a significant barrier to progress, and hardly for the first time.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

How can a train be 4 coaches instead of 8 due to a shortage of drivers ?!!!

Possibly those 8 were made by combining 2 previous trains from earlier in the day, and 1 of those trains didn't have a driver and so wasn't in the right place to be used ?

 

[albionite]

From the horse's mouth. A fascinating insight into how well they are doing - and using their muscle again. I would think millions of folk would love to be in a position whereby 40% tax kicks in. So privatisation meant that they did really well, and yet you knock it! And it was not so long ago when we had a driver on here telling us that drivers were more than happy to do DOO overtime, as it was so lucrative.
Well done , my friend, you are singularly the reason why there has been a clear shift on here from blaming Southern, (who, I am sure, are by no means innocent) to at the very least realising that the rail unions also present a significant barrier to progress, and hardly for the first time.

Stop seeing what you want to see Ernest is retired and wasn't a driver hardly from the horses mouth,

 

[wellquickwoody]

And the fact that SASTA will only pay flat rate for overtime rather than enhanced rates is another negative for anyone wanting to do overtime

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

[Ernest]

Stop seeing what you want to see Ernest is retired and wasn't a driver hardly from the horses mouth,

He is just trolling, adds nothing to the thread like a lot of them here

 

[Claude samdamme]

I do not envy those who have to make the trip from London. I've got the day off to avoid it. What an utter sh*tstorm this is. I agree with those who think the club should say we can only have televised games at the weekend until the travel situation is sorted out. Any repeat of the Villa debacle will be a bloody scandal.

yeah with you on that - I'm a fan on friday nighters, is good to have some beers watching football and if you get a win is nice to have that wrapped before everyone else has to play.... but with Southern's f*ckery it's gonna be impossible for anyone outside of Brighton to get to and home from the game

UTA!

 

[Audax]

Thanks for that - it's the first time I've seen it stated that clearly. Having seen elsewhere that the basic salary of a driver on Southern is £49K then I'm not surprised that they have less incentive to work overtime as they are higher earners paying 40% tax on any extra payment. If the way they're treated is anything like the way SASTA management treat the 'customers' then I'm surprised that they only stopped doing overtime now

If they're on £49k, it's not just the 40% tax rate they'll be paying if they work any significant overtime. £50k is the threshold at which things like Child Benefit start getting withdrawn, so it is plausible that for many of the drivers they actually have very little incentive to accept the overtime. Especially if the overtime is for a company they despise working for already, because of the way it's being managed.

The value proposition of what they actually end up receiving into their bank account, weighed up against spending less time with family / friends, is a real one. It's one I'm constantly weighing up, but fortunately I work for a company that treats it's staff not just with respect, but as highly valued assets. I'm willing to do 130 miles commuting 4 days a week because they pay me well to do it, and do their best to look after not just my work life but my home life as well (things like my boss has recently been encouraging me to take a 30min lunch instead of 60, so I can leave the office earlier to beat the traffic).

 

[dazzer6666]

Possibly those 8 were made by combining 2 previous trains from earlier in the day, and 1 of those trains didn't have a driver and so wasn't in the right place to be used ?

True...could be

 

[Richy_Seagull]

He is just trolling, adds nothing to the thread like a lot of them here

Oh, the irony.

 

[dazzer6666]

Stop seeing what you want to see Ernest is retired and wasn't a driver hardly from the horses mouth,

Make your mind up - either he's providing insightful information, or making it up. Whether we like it or agree with it irrelevant.......

 

[Hamilton]

One assumes that if Southern back down (which they won't) over the issue of driver only operated trains, that ASLEF will immediately ballot all their members on the 30% of driver only operated trains across the UK?

I'm fully supportive of a second member of crew on board a train. Frankly, I don't believe it has to be the guard that despatches the trains. There is certainly no evidence to support the suggestion that trains despatched by drivers are any less safe than those despatched by guards.

Also, this is a massive government issue, and it needs to be turned into a government versus the unions issue. Part of the franchise agreement is based upon the 'modernisation' of the railways. The changing role of the guard is part of that modernisation. As the government is effectively hiring Southern to execute on a transformation it wants to see, this is their issue. Southern can't back down - it's in the franchise agreement. Also, they have no incentive to back down - they a paid a flat fee by the government.

The sooner this is turned into a Government versus the Unions disagreemwentthe better. Strip out Southern for now. They're no more than civil servants.

As for ASLEF and the RMT, they are now doing more harm to the cause of unions than good. Whatever happens they'll lose and I doubt this government has much appetite for change. Perhaps they should have supported an electable Labour government - then there might have been some pressure on their side.

On the subject of modernisation, everyone on the railways needs to get real. We're talking about driverless cars becoming the norm soon. Driverless trains? They should be a damn sight easier.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

They know their worth, as I said at the time privatisation was meant to curb the unions influence and bring them to heel when in fact it has done the opposite

'Worth' is an interesting concept. Social worth? Economic worth? If so to whom? Society? Their employers? Maybe the better word is 'leverage'. Fair enough but not perhaps admirable as such.

 

[RandyWanger]

According to Southern Fail's website, trains are leaving Victoria.

Scheduled Expected Destinations Platform Service
14:50 14:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:20 15:20 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:50 15:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
16:20 16:20 Brighton TBC On time View details

Taken from: http://www.southernrailway.com/your...C-BTN/departures/?id=AQnDS48fEXQKcWSJZpKnvQ==

Anyone traveled yet? I'll be aiming for the 16:20 but no point going to Victoria if the website is lying when I could go to Blackfriars which is closer and get a ThamesLink.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

According to Southern Fail's website, trains are leaving Victoria.

Scheduled Expected Destinations Platform Service
14:50 14:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:20 15:20 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:50 15:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
16:20 16:20 Brighton TBC On time View details

Taken from: http://www.southernrailway.com/your...C-BTN/departures/?id=AQnDS48fEXQKcWSJZpKnvQ==

Anyone traveled yet? I'll be aiming for the 16:20 but no point going to Victoria if the website is lying when I could go to Blackfriars which is closer and get a ThamesLink.

My feeling is that the commuter routes will generally be ok, as despite their lack of giving a f*ck about commuters, Southerm, RMT and Aslef all would rather put the limited train / staff onto these peak time (ish) highly visible lines that start / end at major London terminals. Where the staff shortages will bite hard will be the routes on the periphery both geographically and temporally, so Hastings, Eastbourne, Havant etc will suffer, as will trains later in the evening.

 

[Ernest]

My feeling is that the commuter routes will generally be ok, as despite their lack of giving a f*ck about commuters, Southerm, RMT and Aslef all would rather put the limited train / staff onto these peak time (ish) highly visible lines that start / end at major London terminals. Where the staff shortages will bite hard will be the routes on the periphery both geographically and temporally, so Hastings, Eastbourne, Havant etc will suffer, as will trains later in the evening.

Resources will be thrown at the Falmer service at the expense of elsewhere

 

[Hastings gull]

Stop seeing what you want to see Ernest is retired and wasn't a driver hardly from the horses mouth,

Don't give me that innocent lark. Said poster comes on to this thread at every opportunity wanting to tell us how it is, or rather how he sees it. He was quite explicit about drivers' conditions, and this has totally backfired on him, as he let the cat out of the bag as to how well they are doing.. He was equally explicit as to how well drivers have done with privatisation, and yet has been on here urging exactly the opposite. When he is questioned about the inconsistencies, then he becomes abusive, telling folk that they are stupid.

Or have I totally misunderstood you, when you say "hardly from the horse's mouth" Are you therefore saying that we should not believe anything he writes because it is total rubbish and he is not what he purports to be, namely an expert on the situation, who can lecture others incessantly.

 

[pasty]

According to Southern Fail's website, trains are leaving Victoria.

Scheduled Expected Destinations Platform Service
14:50 14:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:20 15:20 Brighton TBC On time View details
15:50 15:50 Brighton TBC On time View details
16:20 16:20 Brighton TBC On time View details

Taken from: http://www.southernrailway.com/your...C-BTN/departures/?id=AQnDS48fEXQKcWSJZpKnvQ==

Anyone traveled yet? I'll be aiming for the 16:20 but no point going to Victoria if the website is lying when I could go to Blackfriars which is closer and get a ThamesLink.

The 1620 showing ok on NationalRail live times



Live Departures Vic -> Btn

 

[albionite]

Don't give me that innocent lark. Said poster comes on to this thread at every opportunity wanting to tell us how it is, or rather how he sees it. He was quite explicit about drivers' conditions, and this has totally backfired on him, as he let the cat out of the bag as to how well they are doing.. He was equally explicit as to how well drivers have done with privatisation, and yet has been on here urging exactly the opposite. When he is questioned about the inconsistencies, then he becomes abusive, telling folk that they are stupid.

Or have I totally misunderstood you, when you say "hardly from the horse's mouth" Are you therefore saying that we should not believe anything he writes because it is total rubbish and he is not what he purports to be, namely an expert on the situation, who can lecture others incessantly.

Which part do you not get Ernest is retired? Not a driver? Not a rep for aslef or rmt? So tell me how you think what he says is from the horses mouth? I'll leave it to Ernest to call you stupid.