Southern Rail STRIKE details

[AmexRuislip]

Brighton v Villa: Message from Southern Rail

"We'd like to offer our sincere apologies to you, your club and those of your supporters impacted by the train service cancellations after your match on Friday November 18 at Brighton and Hove Albion.

We have since undertaken an urgent review into the causes of failure on the Friday evening and our planning for events at the Amex Stadium.

We are now in discussions with Brighton and Hove Albion FC to provide assurance that lessons learned have been implemented and that we provide the best possible service going forward.

We would advise any of your fans who were affected to get in touch with our Customer Relations team at comments@southernrailway.com"

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/12/09/message-from-southern-rail

Did Albion actually get an apology?

 

[Ernest]

If you allow yourself to take pride in your work, going over and above the minimum required, particularly to help others - you can.

A totally alien concept for many, I appreciate.

If a company employed the correct number of staff to do the work needed they wouldn't be expecting staff to work overtime to cover the shortfalls

 

[Ernest]

I would suggest a change in the title of this thread from " Southern Rail STRIKE details" because there are no "details" and nothing is certain other than we are all doomed for the foreseeable future.

Can we change it to " Southern Rail STRIKE Speculations" ?

How about 'SASTA Binfest' ?

 

[dazzer6666]

Getting from and back to London tonight might be a ballache tonight then. Thames link show trains running from Blackfriars and London Bridge, anyone know if they'll be affected by the drivers strike?

Not directly but TL seem to be cancelling more trains than usual at the moment - however today is not a strike day (just driver overtime ban...which will limit Southern services....which will have a knock-on effect on TL)

 

[Ernest]

Not directly but TL seem to be cancelling more trains than usual at the moment - however today is not a strike day (just driver overtime ban...which will limit Southern services....which will have a knock-on effect on TL)

Because they are as short of drivers as SASTA are

 

[RandyWanger]

Not directly but TL seem to be cancelling more trains than usual at the moment - however today is not a strike day (just driver overtime ban...which will limit Southern services....which will have a knock-on effect on TL)

Thanks, I've had a look on TL website they're already showing cancellations back:

22:05 Brighton to Bedford due 00:38

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

22:33 Brighton to Bedford due 01:08

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

23:05 Brighton to Bedford due 01:49

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Not looking good.

 

[Bozza]

If a company employed the correct number of staff to do the work needed they wouldn't be expecting staff to work overtime to cover the shortfalls

I wasn't talking about SASTA, more a general mindset that doesn't always pitch workers into direct confrontation with their employer. These relationships can be amicable, with flexibility and give & take on both sides.

As I've said, it's clearly not the RMT/ASLEF way as their personas seem to be that of little men who are angry at everything and shouting at everyone.

People have said that no one can be forced to do overtime, which is quite correct. However, it seems drivers have been quite happy to work considerable amounts of overtime until now, pocketing inflated pay and enabling their families to lead far more comfortable lives than a basic wage only would permit.

The Southern driver friend-of-a-friend I was speaking to recently was certainly very happy with his c£80k per year position, made up of considerable overtime. I certainly didn't get the impression he'd want to drop back to his basic wage alone.

 

[dazzer6666]

Thanks, I've had a look on TL website they're already showing cancellations back:

22:05 Brighton to Bedford due 00:38

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

22:33 Brighton to Bedford due 01:08

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

23:05 Brighton to Bedford due 01:49

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Not looking good.

Business as usual for Thameslink sadly. Going to be a nightmare for anyone needing to go North from Brighton then (assuming they can get to Brighton in the first place)

How can a train be 4 coaches instead of 8 due to a shortage of drivers ?!!!

 

[dazzer6666]

Because they are as short of drivers as SASTA are

.......same overall company.....same shite management.......

 

[albionite]

I wasn't talking about SASTA, more a general mindset that doesn't always pitch workers into direct confrontation with their employer. These relationships can be amicable, with flexibility and give & take on both sides.

As I've said, it's clearly not the RMT/ASLEF way as their personas seem to be that of little men who are angry at everything and shouting at everyone.

People have said that no one can be forced to do overtime, which is quite correct. However, it seems drivers have been quite happy to work considerable amounts of overtime until now, pocketing inflated pay and enabling their families to lead far more comfortable lives than a basic wage only would permit.

The Southern driver friend-of-a-friend I was speaking to recently was certainly very happy with his c£80k per year position, made up of considerable overtime. I certainly didn't get the impression he'd want to drop back to his basic wage alone.

80k a year? I think someone has been lying to you.

 

[Spiros]

Because they are as short of drivers as SASTA are

Genuine question (not fishing attempt) but I thought that historically all of the railway companies were short of drivers because the drivers themselves wanted plenty of opportunities for overtime, even back in the 'good old days' of British Rail? Don't the other train companies run on a similar overtime-dependent basis? The weakness of this is that it depends on the goodwill of the staff so if you piss them off your model breaks down.

BTW, as much as I'll criticise RMT and ASLEF for striking I don't blame them for working to the terms of their contract and not doing overtime if they're not happy

 

[Gazwag]

If you allow yourself to be treated poorly , you will be

She doesn't feel like she is treated poorly, she know things will get back to normal in a few weeks once all the staff are back as she will be able to take some of the time back again. She also feels responsibility to her "customers" and would only let them down due to other factors out of her control.

 

[Bozza]

80k a year? I think someone has been lying to you.

He had no obvious reason to do so. If the figure is incorrect, then the underlying point isn't: he was very happy to be able to work considerable amounts of overtime for the extra money. Given how short SASTA are, then it seems he is not alone and a large number of drivers have been doing likewise.

No one can be forced to do overtime, but it seems the drivers are largely happy to feed from that trough whilst it's there.

 

[Ernest]

Genuine question (not fishing attempt) but I thought that historically all of the railway companies were short of drivers because the drivers themselves wanted plenty of opportunities for overtime, even back in the 'good old days' of British Rail? Don't the other train companies run on a similar overtime-dependent basis? The weakness of this is that it depends on the goodwill of the staff so if you piss them off your model breaks down.

BTW, as much as I'll criticise RMT and ASLEF for striking I don't blame them for working to the terms of their contract and not doing overtime if they're not happy

As I've tried explaining, if a Driver works overtime these days it means he pays most of it in tax hence SASTA having to offer bribes such as £140 on top just to sign on for overtime. Most Drivers don't want extra pay but extra time off due to the nature of shift work and the fatigue it causes.

In the days of British Rail, overtime was part of the wages, basic pay was useless and your money was made up of allowances, shift payments and overtime. That finished with privatisation when staff became salaried and earnt the same money without the need of working overtime hence so few willing to do it even if industrial relations were perfect

 

[dazzer6666]

As I've tried explaining, if a Driver works overtime these days it means he pays most of it in tax hence SASTA having to offer bribes such as £140 on top just to sign on for overtime. Most Drivers don't want extra pay but extra time off due to the nature of shift work and the fatigue it causes.

In the days of British Rail, overtime was part of the wages, basic pay was useless and your money was made up of allowances, shift payments and overtime. That finished with privatisation when staff became salaried and earnt the same money without the need of working overtime hence so few willing to do it even if industrial relations were perfect

Tax would be at the individual's marginal rate, same as for anyone else, so max 40% on anything over £43k pa, not 'most of it'. From what you're saying it sounds like they all got significant pay increases when it was privatised (to become salaried, incorporating what they previously had to work extra hours to get - 'earnt the same money'), but they want to retain all the rights they had when things were different. Have their cake and eat it springs to mind in that case. Good inside info though - my sympathy for the drivers has evaporated still further.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

As I've tried explaining, if a Driver works overtime these days it means he pays most of it in tax hence SASTA having to offer bribes such as £140 on top just to sign on for overtime. Most Drivers don't want extra pay but extra time off due to the nature of shift work and the fatigue it causes.

In the days of British Rail, overtime was part of the wages, basic pay was useless and your money was made up of allowances, shift payments and overtime. That finished with privatisation when staff became salaried and earnt the same money without the need of working overtime hence so few willing to do it even if industrial relations were perfect

Blimey - these boys must be on big money if they pay 'most' of it (overtime) in tax!

 

[Ernest]

Tax would be at the individual's marginal rate, same as for anyone else, so max 40% on anything over £43k pa, not 'most of it'. From what you're saying it sounds like they all got significant pay increases when it was privatised (to become salaried, incorporating what they previously had to work extra hours to get - 'earnt the same money'), but they want to retain all the rights they had when things were different. Have their cake and eat it springs to mind in that case. Good inside info though - my sympathy for the drivers has evaporated still further.

And the fact that SASTA will only pay flat rate for overtime rather than enhanced rates is another negative for anyone wanting to do overtime

 

[Ernest]

Blimey - these boys must be on big money if they pay 'most' of it (overtime) in tax!

They know their worth, as I said at the time privatisation was meant to curb the unions influence and bring them to heel when in fact it has done the opposite

 

[Guinness Boy]

They know their worth, as I said at the time privatisation was meant to curb the unions influence and bring them to heel when in fact it has done the opposite

So that rather goes against the safety argument. That reads like they're flexing their muscles because they can. I can't see the government or Charlie Horton having that. Makes me think it will be a long dispute that will eventually be settled with more anti-union legislation. That didn't end up working out so well long term for the miners.

 

[Ernest]

So that rather goes against the safety argument. That reads like they're flexing their muscles because they can. I can't see the government or Charlie Horton having that. Makes me think it will be a long dispute that will eventually be settled with more anti-union legislation. That didn't end up working out so well long term for the miners.

I don't think the public will enjoy 3 or 4 years of this which is the Governments long term agenda , they can't train any new train drivers so that is not an option. The sooner both sides SASTA/Unions are brought together without any interference from the DfT or Grayling the sooner things will be resolved