Southern Rail STRIKE details

[beorhthelm]

The second member of staff is going from being mandatory to being optional. So the aim will be to phase them out ASAP to lob another one-off two-bob dividend into the shareholders pockets.

i know you accept that as happening, on the other hand Southern's offer was to retain the staff until the end of the franchise. they might well dispense with them after that, but wouldn't see related bonuses for years. they could also be lieing and start culling immediately, through natural wastage etc, still take some years to feed through and might make them break even. then again, with termination and rehiring, they probably don't have to honor the offer anymore, so perhaps this was the plan all along and the RMT just walked their members into the trap?

all i *know* for sure is that the strikes will inconvenience the paying passengers more this week.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

The known facts will only come out via the Judicial Review. The cosy arrangement between Southern/GTR and DfT is currently confidential commercial information. Wonder why that would be?

I for one cant ****ing wait for this.

 

[pearl]

The funny thing is that the letters were sent out before yesterdays talks began, makes you wonder why SASTA even bothered to turn up yesterday

so what happens with the train drivers now. this is all so sinister, profits before safety, break the unions, if you tolerate this ......... (so glad I'm old)

 

[Ernest]

so what happens with the train drivers now. this is all so sinister, profits before safety, break the unions, if you tolerate this ......... (so glad I'm old)

They're next, Wilkinson & the DfT said they wanted to smash the drivers, they are the prize ,the guards were always going to be collateral damage on the way

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

They're next, Wilkinson & the DfT said they wanted to smash the drivers, they are the prize ,the guards were always going to be collateral damage on the way

Can't help but think that the drivers, both Southern and Thameslink, could lend WAY more muscle to the strike tho. They seem to be keeping the strike at arms length. A complete shutdown of the network for a short sharp period would bring things to a head. Management can just about get awy with having half-trained management stand in for guards, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to stand in for drivers. Time to turn the union heat on DRIVERS OF BOTH SOUTHERN AND THAMESLINK and get them to properly stand shoulder to shoulder with their non-driver colleagues. Seems to me they're currently copping out more than a tad. Time to shut the network down and force a result, else this will drag on until the Judicial Review goes to extra time and penalties.

 

[Yoda]

i know you accept that as happening, on the other hand Southern's offer was to retain the staff until the end of the franchise. they might well dispense with them after that, but wouldn't see related bonuses for years. they could also be lieing and start culling immediately, through natural wastage etc, still take some years to feed through and might make them break even. then again, with termination and rehiring, they probably don't have to honor the offer anymore, so perhaps this was the plan all along and the RMT just walked their members into the trap?

all i *know* for sure is that the strikes will inconvenience the paying passengers more this week.

You've missed the other way they'll make their bonuses. The guards are also going to be labeled as 'Revenue Protection Officers', and will only be able to issue penalty fares (even if you do all in your power to obtain a ticket, including finding them). Southern have a target to meet with the DfT for these and if they meet it, get another nice huge bonus.

Oh, and before you ask 'Who don't they just issue a standard ticket?' Southern have changed the T&C's on contracts on the commission earned on ticket sales. They used to get a small % on any ticket sold. Under these new rules, they will only get that % on Penalty Fares issued.

 

[Yoda]

Can't help but think that the drivers, both Southern and Thameslink, could lend WAY more muscle to the strike tho. They seem to be keeping the strike at arms length. A complete shutdown of the network for a short sharp period would bring things to a head. Management can just about get awy with having half-trained management stand in for guards, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to stand in for drivers. Time to turn the union heat on DRIVERS OF BOTH SOUTHERN AND THAMESLINK and get them to properly stand shoulder to shoulder with their non-driver colleagues. Seems to me they're currently copping out more than a tad. Time to shut the network down and force a result, else this will drag on until the Judicial Review goes to extra time and penalties.

They've tried but each time, Southern & GTR have gone to court to get it blocked. (not sure on all the in's and outs)

 

[beorhthelm]

The funny thing is that the letters were sent out before yesterdays talks began, makes you wonder why SASTA even bothered to turn up yesterday

should have arrived by now, what do they say?

 

[beorhthelm]

You've missed the other way they'll make their bonuses. The guards are also going to be labeled as 'Revenue Protection Officers', and will only be able to issue penalty fares (even if you do all in your power to obtain a ticket, including finding them). Southern have a target to meet with the DfT for these and if they meet it, get another nice huge bonus.

Oh, and before you ask 'Who don't they just issue a standard ticket?' Southern have changed the T&C's on contracts on the commission earned on ticket sales. They used to get a small % on any ticket sold. Under these new rules, they will only get that % on Penalty Fares issued.

i thought this one had died off... doesn't match up with Southern getting paid a fixed amount for running the service. maybe they do get penalty fares, so the fixed price operation doesn't hold, also they'd have a conflict of interest, what with closing ticket offices and having machines that dont work. dont know either way, just saying its inconsistent. why cant we just hold the line that we want to have guards, people like them and make a campaign around that? most would back that, i would.

 

[pearl]

Can't help but think that the drivers, both Southern and Thameslink, could lend WAY more muscle to the strike tho. They seem to be keeping the strike at arms length. A complete shutdown of the network for a short sharp period would bring things to a head. Management can just about get awy with having half-trained management stand in for guards, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to stand in for drivers. Time to turn the union heat on DRIVERS OF BOTH SOUTHERN AND THAMESLINK and get them to properly stand shoulder to shoulder with their non-driver colleagues. Seems to me they're currently copping out more than a tad. Time to shut the network down and force a result, else this will drag on until the Judicial Review goes to extra time and penalties.

think that's exactly what GTR/Southern/Dft/tory government want

 

[Deadly Danson]

http://m.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/..._from_councillor_on_train/?commentSort=newest

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

think that's exactly what GTR/Southern/Dft/tory government want

Reckon the opposite would happen. GTR/Southern/Dft/tory government would have to back down pretty sharpish. Just needs one national-headline-grabbing shot of thousands of tourists arriving at Gatwick and forming a five mile long queue for taxis/replacement bus services and questions would be asked in The House and the slimeball union-bashing Minister For Transport would be gone pronto tonto, and Southern/GTR would swiftly follow. Get the drivers of both Southern and Thameslink fully on board with the strikes and it'd all be over in a week.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Can't help but think that the drivers, both Southern and Thameslink, could lend WAY more muscle to the strike tho. They seem to be keeping the strike at arms length. A complete shutdown of the network for a short sharp period would bring things to a head. Management can just about get awy with having half-trained management stand in for guards, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to stand in for drivers. Time to turn the union heat on DRIVERS OF BOTH SOUTHERN AND THAMESLINK and get them to properly stand shoulder to shoulder with their non-driver colleagues. Seems to me they're currently copping out more than a tad. Time to shut the network down and force a result, else this will drag on until the Judicial Review goes to extra time and penalties.

Can't. Have to do it legally and the government and GTR have very expensive lawyers who keep ruling strike ballots illegal. Meanwhile GTR keep pissing all over our agreed T & Cs. Another Aslef meeting planned for early next week.

 

[Arthur]

Can't help but think that the drivers, both Southern and Thameslink, could lend WAY more muscle to the strike tho. They seem to be keeping the strike at arms length. A complete shutdown of the network for a short sharp period would bring things to a head. Management can just about get awy with having half-trained management stand in for guards, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to stand in for drivers. Time to turn the union heat on DRIVERS OF BOTH SOUTHERN AND THAMESLINK and get them to properly stand shoulder to shoulder with their non-driver colleagues. Seems to me they're currently copping out more than a tad. Time to shut the network down and force a result, else this will drag on until the Judicial Review goes to extra time and penalties.

Why stop there? IF this is about safety then why doesn't the RMT advise all of its members to go on strike. Surely a train whether it has a Southern, Thameslink, London Underground, whatever badge on is unsafe without a guard on then the union should looking out for all of its members and not just those on Southern??

 

[Bozza]

Why stop there? IF this is about safety then why doesn't the RMT advise all of its members to go on strike. Surely a train whether it has a Southern, Thameslink, London Underground, whatever badge on is unsafe without a guard on then the union should looking out for all of its members and not just those on Southern??

These other DOO services that the RMT forgot to oppose must be quite inconvenient for them as they keep trotting out these stories about how super-hero guards have previously saved the day.

If I were a driver on a DOO service, I'd be asking serious questions about how safe I was without this essential back-up on board.

 

[pearl]

Reckon the opposite would happen. GTR/Southern/Dft/tory government would have to back down pretty sharpish. Just needs one national-headline-grabbing shot of thousands of tourists arriving at Gatwick and forming a five mile long queue for taxis/replacement bus services and questions would be asked in The House and the slimeball union-bashing Minister For Transport would be gone pronto tonto, and Southern/GTR would swiftly follow. Get the drivers of both Southern and Thameslink fully on board with the strikes and it'd all be over in a week.

and then what?

 

[The Albion Roar]

Why stop there? IF this is about safety then why doesn't the RMT advise all of its members to go on strike. Surely a train whether it has a Southern, Thameslink, London Underground, whatever badge on is unsafe without a guard on then the union should looking out for all of its members and not just those on Southern??

You can't strike if your company isn't affected. Or rather, you can be sacked if you strike on behalf of employees of a different company (otherwise known as 'Sympathy Strikes' or 'Secondary Strikes'). For instance, a TfL employee who's also an RMT member can't go on strike on behalf of Southern colleagues if the dispute isn't with TfL.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Incidentally, not only are SASTA not employing enough drivers, guards, ticket office staff and station personnel, it also seems they're not employing enough security, and have little interest in helping the police solve theft crimes on the trains...

http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/new...tigating_theft_of_passenger_s___1_000_luggage

 

[Arthur]

You can't strike if your company isn't affected. Or rather, you can be sacked if you strike on behalf of employees of a different company (otherwise known as 'Sympathy Strikes' or 'Secondary Strikes'). For instance, a TfL employee who's also an RMT member can't go on strike on behalf of Southern colleagues if the dispute isn't with TfL.

It was a some what tongue in cheek comment but the point is a valid one.

Incidentally, not only are SASTA not employing enough drivers, guards, ticket office staff and station personnel, it also seems they're not employing enough security, and have little interest in helping the police solve theft crimes on the trains...

http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/new...tigating_theft_of_passenger_s___1_000_luggage

To be fair to Southern I know of an example of the Metropolitan Police not pursuing evidence due to the cost involved in obtaining it so I don't think it's uncommon. That said what cost there would be to Southern would surely be minimal??

 

[pearl]

Incidentally, not only are SASTA not employing enough drivers, guards, ticket office staff and station personnel, it also seems they're not employing enough security, and have little interest in helping the police solve theft crimes on the trains...

http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/new...tigating_theft_of_passenger_s___1_000_luggage

oh great! late night trains will be fun when this message gets around