Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
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Southern Rail STRIKE details
- Thread starter Ernest
- Start date
you post hundreds of twitter links. which no one on tapatalk can view.
Any chance in future you can give brief out line and if worth accessing via browser to see.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
BREAKING Last minute talks to be held in Southern Rail conductor dispute (Argus)
Edit to add copy & paste from Argus
Talks aimed at averting a series of strikes on Southern Railway will be held tomorrow.
Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union are due to take 14 days of action in a long-running row over the role of conductors.
The first walkout is due to start next week, threatening fresh disruption to Southern's services.
The company has set a deadline of noon on Thursday for the union to accept its final offer.
The two sides will now meet in London in a last-ditch attempt to solve the row.
wakeytom
New member
But it is down to them is it not? Are southern giving all the staff holiday for those dates or are the unions causing it? As a commuter the people refusing to work are causing the cancellations to my journey, nothing else
Copied from "It's not about the doors"
Passenger Account of Watford Junction Train Derailment, 16/09/16
It’s not about the doors! It’s not about who pushes a button!
We have been sent this by a passenger who was travelling on the derailed 06:19 hrs service from Milton Keynes to London Euston on 16th September 2016. The train was comprised of two four-coach class 350 electric multiple units, a total of eight coaches.
While you may have seen the incident in the newspapers and on television what was not reported was that the driver of this train was trapped in the cab and the guard took over safety critical duties and train evacuation. We sat on this for a while with the hope our union would make something of this. Hopefully they will in the very near future. We will add more to this as soon as we can.
The passenger states:
“The guard on the train after the derailment was amazing. She kept us inform via loudspeaker of all the different updates all the time (we were never left in the dark about what was happening, how far was the rescue train from us, etc.), first she told us they were going to evacuate us, then that they were going to move the people in the first 4 carriages on the last 4 and move the train out but as this was impossible and we’ll have to wait for a rescue train. When the emergency lights went off after a couple of hours and all the carriages went dark, she explained to us the reason why apart from updating us via loudspeakers, she walked up and down all the carriages few times, asking if people were alright, she then left opened all the inter-carriages connection doors as well as the outside doors to let some fresh air circulate in the all train She liaised with the firemen, paramedics and British Transport Police when they arrived And she also kept us all smiling by finishing all her messages by ‘Keep Calm’ … Being on a derailment train made me realise how important the guard is while before I may not have pay much attention to the role of the guard.”
Passenger Account of Watford Junction Train Derailment, 16/09/16
It’s not about the doors! It’s not about who pushes a button!
We have been sent this by a passenger who was travelling on the derailed 06:19 hrs service from Milton Keynes to London Euston on 16th September 2016. The train was comprised of two four-coach class 350 electric multiple units, a total of eight coaches.
While you may have seen the incident in the newspapers and on television what was not reported was that the driver of this train was trapped in the cab and the guard took over safety critical duties and train evacuation. We sat on this for a while with the hope our union would make something of this. Hopefully they will in the very near future. We will add more to this as soon as we can.
The passenger states:
“The guard on the train after the derailment was amazing. She kept us inform via loudspeaker of all the different updates all the time (we were never left in the dark about what was happening, how far was the rescue train from us, etc.), first she told us they were going to evacuate us, then that they were going to move the people in the first 4 carriages on the last 4 and move the train out but as this was impossible and we’ll have to wait for a rescue train. When the emergency lights went off after a couple of hours and all the carriages went dark, she explained to us the reason why apart from updating us via loudspeakers, she walked up and down all the carriages few times, asking if people were alright, she then left opened all the inter-carriages connection doors as well as the outside doors to let some fresh air circulate in the all train She liaised with the firemen, paramedics and British Transport Police when they arrived And she also kept us all smiling by finishing all her messages by ‘Keep Calm’ … Being on a derailment train made me realise how important the guard is while before I may not have pay much attention to the role of the guard.”
Southern reject RMT offer of new package that could solve the guards dispute
RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed that a fresh set of proposals that could have resolved the on-going guards dispute has been rejected out of hand by the company. As a result, the next phase of action scheduled to begin next week goes ahead.
The RMT proposals would allow for the current conductors to migrate across to the new role of On Board Supervisor, addressing the issue at the heart of Southern’s implementation plans.
For a an agreed transitional period the OBS role would retain all of the current safety competencies and requirements of the conductor.
During that transition period the company and the union would work jointly to create a new framework of processes and procedures that would retain the second safety critical members of staff on current services, agree a safe and reliable method of train despatch, address the customer service objectives of Southern and ensure access to services for all.
Not only have the company rejected RMT’s rational proposals, but they have also rejected a union offer to bring the government conciliation service ACAS in immediately to try and close the gap between the two sides. Southern have also confirmed that they are now hell-bent of bulldozing through a wholesale introduction of Driver Only Operation with 1600 trains a day running without a safety-competent guard by January.
Mick Cash, RMT General Secretary said,
“The union is angry and disappointed that a fresh set of proposals put forward by the union today that address both our issues and the company agenda have been rejected out of hand with barely a cursory glance. The travelling public will be rightly angry that the company have kicked back in our faces a chance to resolve this long-running dispute.
“There was a real chance of getting a negotiated solution on track today but Southern have not only slammed the door on that but they have also rejected RMT’s offer to draft in ACAS immediately to try and close the gap and broker a settlement. That is scandalous.
“This week we have seen Southern launch a botched attempt to incite the public against their front line workforce. Today that same company have shown that they have no interest in negotiating with the staff union and are hell-bent on having a punch up with the rail workers who keep the travelling public safe.
“Attempts to bribe and bully the Southern Rail staff with the threat of the sack leave an indelible stain on Britain’s railways. The union now awaits confirmation on exactly what the company propose to do next and we will be taking guidance, and offering our members advice, once we know exactly what Southern’s intentions are.”
ENDS
Note to editors:
The full detail of RMT’s proposals is as below:
PROPOSALS
1. Recognising the company’s objective to move its implementation plans along, the RMT accepts that on an agreed date conductors will migrate to a new role of On Board Supervisor (OBS).
2. Recognising the RMT’s objective of retaining a second safety critical competent person on each service where it is currently required, Southern (GTR) accepts that for a defined transition period (to be agreed) the OBS role and post-holders on such services will retain all of the current competencies and requirements of a conductor and that those services will operate in the current mode, with a second safety critical and competent OBS on board all services throughout the transition period.
3. During the transition period Southern (GTR) will work jointly with RMT and representatives of train drivers to create a new set of operational processes and procedures that will be acceptable to all parties with the remit:
• That those services that currently require a conductor will retain a second safety critical and competent OBS on each service that runs.
• That the two train crew will jointly operate the service in a safe, efficient and reliable mode.
• The role and competencies will encompass the customer service objectives of Southern (GTR).
• That high levels of accessibility for all passengers including disabled, elderly, and all those that may need assistance or guidance, accessibility is a priority
4. Building on the work previously done at ACAS, a set of defined competencies will be jointly devised and agreed to enable OBS post-holders to operate trains in the new agreed mode.
5. Both parties agree that the adoption of these proposals will enable them to finalise by an agreed date the migration of conductors to the OBS role, on a jointly agreed programme and set of arrangements. These arrangements will be developed from those that have already been tabled and will ensure fairness in terms of which staff will migrate and which will remain as conductors
RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed that a fresh set of proposals that could have resolved the on-going guards dispute has been rejected out of hand by the company. As a result, the next phase of action scheduled to begin next week goes ahead.
The RMT proposals would allow for the current conductors to migrate across to the new role of On Board Supervisor, addressing the issue at the heart of Southern’s implementation plans.
For a an agreed transitional period the OBS role would retain all of the current safety competencies and requirements of the conductor.
During that transition period the company and the union would work jointly to create a new framework of processes and procedures that would retain the second safety critical members of staff on current services, agree a safe and reliable method of train despatch, address the customer service objectives of Southern and ensure access to services for all.
Not only have the company rejected RMT’s rational proposals, but they have also rejected a union offer to bring the government conciliation service ACAS in immediately to try and close the gap between the two sides. Southern have also confirmed that they are now hell-bent of bulldozing through a wholesale introduction of Driver Only Operation with 1600 trains a day running without a safety-competent guard by January.
Mick Cash, RMT General Secretary said,
“The union is angry and disappointed that a fresh set of proposals put forward by the union today that address both our issues and the company agenda have been rejected out of hand with barely a cursory glance. The travelling public will be rightly angry that the company have kicked back in our faces a chance to resolve this long-running dispute.
“There was a real chance of getting a negotiated solution on track today but Southern have not only slammed the door on that but they have also rejected RMT’s offer to draft in ACAS immediately to try and close the gap and broker a settlement. That is scandalous.
“This week we have seen Southern launch a botched attempt to incite the public against their front line workforce. Today that same company have shown that they have no interest in negotiating with the staff union and are hell-bent on having a punch up with the rail workers who keep the travelling public safe.
“Attempts to bribe and bully the Southern Rail staff with the threat of the sack leave an indelible stain on Britain’s railways. The union now awaits confirmation on exactly what the company propose to do next and we will be taking guidance, and offering our members advice, once we know exactly what Southern’s intentions are.”
ENDS
Note to editors:
The full detail of RMT’s proposals is as below:
PROPOSALS
1. Recognising the company’s objective to move its implementation plans along, the RMT accepts that on an agreed date conductors will migrate to a new role of On Board Supervisor (OBS).
2. Recognising the RMT’s objective of retaining a second safety critical competent person on each service where it is currently required, Southern (GTR) accepts that for a defined transition period (to be agreed) the OBS role and post-holders on such services will retain all of the current competencies and requirements of a conductor and that those services will operate in the current mode, with a second safety critical and competent OBS on board all services throughout the transition period.
3. During the transition period Southern (GTR) will work jointly with RMT and representatives of train drivers to create a new set of operational processes and procedures that will be acceptable to all parties with the remit:
• That those services that currently require a conductor will retain a second safety critical and competent OBS on each service that runs.
• That the two train crew will jointly operate the service in a safe, efficient and reliable mode.
• The role and competencies will encompass the customer service objectives of Southern (GTR).
• That high levels of accessibility for all passengers including disabled, elderly, and all those that may need assistance or guidance, accessibility is a priority
4. Building on the work previously done at ACAS, a set of defined competencies will be jointly devised and agreed to enable OBS post-holders to operate trains in the new agreed mode.
5. Both parties agree that the adoption of these proposals will enable them to finalise by an agreed date the migration of conductors to the OBS role, on a jointly agreed programme and set of arrangements. These arrangements will be developed from those that have already been tabled and will ensure fairness in terms of which staff will migrate and which will remain as conductors
wakeytom
New member
Absolute jokers, classic union trying to strangle the country as they have in France for hundreds of years.
The way I see it is that of or when southern have the franchise withdrawn the new holder can just implement the proposed changes immediately. The sooner that happens the better
The way I see it is that of or when southern have the franchise withdrawn the new holder can just implement the proposed changes immediately. The sooner that happens the better
"GTR chief executive Charles Horton said the RMT offer 'didn't come anywhere near our goals of modernising our train service'.
He continued: "All they have offered is a superficial rebadging in name only. What the RMT want to do is retain their power and control by insisting our trains cannot run under any circumstances without a conductor on board."
Southern said its modernisation plans would now go ahead."
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2016/10/06-southernrmt-talks-fail-strikes-to.html
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
in other words the RMT will move to OBS on condition all services retain second safety critical person, with no recognition of possible exceptions. so they'll go ahead with the strikes, because they cant compromise on one point, having secured so much along the way. so sad.
wakeytom
New member
Classic union tactics
That's how I read it as well. I was pretty sympathetic to a lot of the staff concerns, but for me that's now draining away. Still hate SASTA as well though.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
absolutly. this isnt an either-or issue, they are both a shower of crap.
Not trolling, but would a driver not be able to do this? Or was he trying to put the train back on the tracks?
Incidentally just had this trotted out whilst stopped at a red signal for 5 mins, the conductor came on the tannoy and said, due to a DOO service in front of us having a passenger alarm the driver has had to get out of his cabin and go up the train to investigate. Oooff
thedonkeycentrehalf
Moved back to wear the gloves (again)
- Jul 7, 2003
- 9,340
Key bit of that story was that the driver was trapped in his cab.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,652
I have not followed everything on here, and do not claim to be an expert in any way, but could not a solution be that the driver presses the button, as he can see with his mirror, or look down the platform much as a conductor can, and a second member of staff is always on board (ie no job losses) and concerns him/herself solely with the passengers. Is this too simple?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
thats exactly where we are now. the sticking point is Southern want to be able to run trains without second staff when the network is all buggered up, while RMT dont want to allow this fearing it will lead to redundancy of the role over time.
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Is the strike on or off next week, thought there were final showdown talks today