Southern Rail STRIKE details

[ManOfSussex]

You ever been on the West Coast line when the schools come out? It's bloody mayhem. Even with a 3 or 4 coach train. All these hyperactive kids running up and down the platform, happy in the full knowledge that they're invincible and will live forever. But just in case it turns out they're not, maybe best to have a guard checking out the platform prior to departure. Just in case, eh?

It's exactly the same on the Coastway East at Bexhill.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Compromise negotiations. PS: Don't take bus back from Steyning when schools are out for the day.

I avoid school trains unless it is raining.

If only Southern, GTR, DTF and GMT had thought of this compromise already, we could've avoided all the strikes

 

[Deadly Danson]

Or the onboard supervisor (or whatever they are going to be called) of course.

They won't be dispatching so can't help with that but assuming the train isn't late, there isn't disruption or there just aren't enough to go around then yes they can assist a wheelchair. Of course the person in the wheelchair won't know in advance whether there will be anyone to let them on.

 

[beorhthelm]

They won't be dispatching so can't help with that but assuming the train isn't late, there isn't disruption or there just aren't enough to go around then yes they can assist a wheelchair. Of course the person in the wheelchair won't know in advance whether there will be anyone to let them on.

i do wish you'd stop this disability angle. the union is not taking action over access for the disabled, nor is it their place to do so, its a matter for Southern to comply with the relevant law. if they need to provide staff to enable access, they'll have to do so, irrespective of whatever other roles that person might do. i wonder if the guards are currently obliged to assist, if other matters arise (detaining a rogue smoker for example?)

 

[perseus]

If only Southern, GTR, DTF and GMT had thought of this compromise already, we could've avoided all the strikes

Management change the goal posts.Or at least rearrange the field of play.

 

[pasty]

i do wish you'd stop this disability angle. the union is not taking action over access for the disabled, nor is it their place to do so, its a matter for Southern to comply with the relevant law. if they need to provide staff to enable access, they'll have to do so, irrespective of whatever other roles that person might do. i wonder if the guards are currently obliged to assist, if other matters arise (detaining a rogue smoker for example?)

I also wish the unions would stop using the "no guard" argument as well. As a poor downtrodden ignorant commuter, it seems to me that the unions are conveniently forgetting one of the "O's" in DOO. It stands for Driver OPERATED Only, not Driver Only, insinuating there is nobody else on the train. From what we hear, the guard is not being removed from the train, but will just no longer be responsible for closing the doors. There will still be two members of staff on the train, so all the rhetoric about there not being anyone to help passengers if there is a disturbance, or checking if someone is having a crafty fag in the bogs, or if a disabled passenger needs help and so on, is just bullcrap.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I also wish the unions would stop using the "no guard" argument as well. As a poor downtrodden ignorant commuter, it seems to me that the unions are conveniently forgetting one of the "O's" in DOO. It stands for Driver OPERATED Only, not Driver Only, insinuating there is nobody else on the train. From what we hear, the guard is not being removed from the train, but will just no longer be responsible for closing the doors. There will still be two members of staff on the train, so all the rhetoric about there not being anyone to help passengers if there is a disturbance, or checking if someone is having a crafty fag in the bogs, or if a disabled passenger needs help and so on, is just bullcrap.

Isn't the point that a DOO train does not need a second member of staff to operate it, so as soon as they can Southern will remove them altogether?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Isn't the point that a DOO train does not need a second member of staff to operate it, so as soon as they can Southern will remove them altogether?

It will also mean that the train can still run if the on board supervisor is sick or on holiday or stranded in Penge (poor sod).

Unless of course the poor sod is stranded in Penge because there are signal problems, frozen points, sheep on the line, graffiti artists, a jumper, congestion, several broken down trains, a stray piece of unattended luggage, the wrong type of leaves, snow, sun, rain or wind. Then it won't.

 

[Ernest]

I also wish the unions would stop using the "no guard" argument as well. As a poor downtrodden ignorant commuter, it seems to me that the unions are conveniently forgetting one of the "O's" in DOO. It stands for Driver OPERATED Only, not Driver Only, insinuating there is nobody else on the train. From what we hear, the guard is not being removed from the train, but will just no longer be responsible for closing the doors. There will still be two members of staff on the train, so all the rhetoric about there not being anyone to help passengers if there is a disturbance, or checking if someone is having a crafty fag in the bogs, or if a disabled passenger needs help and so on, is just bullcrap.

You are wrong, so stop the bullcrap

 

[Hotchilidog]

Isn't the point that a DOO train does not need a second member of staff to operate it, so as soon as they can Southern will remove them altogether?

Yes. That is exactly the point.

 

[pasty]

Isn't the point that a DOO train does not need a second member of staff to operate it, so as soon as they can Southern will remove them altogether?

The significant word there is "need". No, DOO trains do not need a second member of staff, but Southern have said there will be no job loses and the current second member of staff, the guard, will still be on the DOO train but with different a role. It seems that the unions have just gone into default union setting as soon as any change is mooted and do not believe anything they are told.

 

[Diablo]

You are wrong, so stop the bullcrap

I like most, accept that "Stupid IDIOT" and "LOONEY BIN" are very apt descriptions....

 

[Deadly Danson]

The significant word there is "need". No, DOO trains do not need a second member of staff, but Southern have said there will be no job loses and the current second member of staff, the guard, will still be on the DOO train but with different a role. It seems that the unions have just gone into default union setting as soon as any change is mooted and do not believe anything they are told.

We do not believe a word they are saying because they are already defaulting on "agreed" terms and conditions. Everyone knows exactly why this is being forced through. Do you honestly think they are being so bullish and won't negotiate on this one point because they simply want to offer better customer service? I'm always amused by people that constantly and consistently slag off Southern and say they don't know what they are doing and are unfit to run a train service but then are quite happy to trust them on this one point.

 

[Arthur]

We do not believe a word they are saying because they are already defaulting on "agreed" terms and conditions. Everyone knows exactly why this is being forced through. Do you honestly think they are being so bullish and won't negotiate on this one point because they simply want to offer better customer service? I'm always amused by people that constantly and consistently slag off Southern and say they don't know what they are doing and are unfit to run a train service but then are quite happy to trust them on this one point.

Lets say you are spot on (and to be fair I expect you are) so what? Why should people in the now privatised railway industry be immune from redundancy? If my company decide I am surplus to requirements and give me the heave ho then I wouldn't go out of my way to make it bloody awful for the rest of the world during my consultation period.

I trust Southern about as much as I trust the RMT....not one jot. The trouble is neither are prepared to budge and the only winner I can see because of the daft way the franchise is operated is Southern. The continued loser out of it all is the commuter.

 

[beorhthelm]

Isn't the point that a DOO train does not need a second member of staff to operate it, so as soon as they can Southern will remove them altogether?

we've long since moved on from that, the current position is all trains will be rostered for a second member of staff. we can disbelieve whether Southern will stick to this forever, as it stands there is no proposal to remove the second staff.

 

[Deadly Danson]

we've long since moved on from that, the current position is all trains will be rostered for a second member of staff. we can disbelieve whether Southern will stick to this forever, as it stands there is no proposal to remove the second staff.

**except during disruption. Which is the crux of the whole debate.

 

[The Albion Roar]

sounds like 80 vacancies to me, so why say 400 when thats the number employed?

I didn't.

And they're not vacancies. It's the number of new jobs required to fill the roles, which SASTA are not now going to fill.

 

[beorhthelm]

**except during disruption. Which is the crux of the whole debate.

yep, and under the current system a little disruption has massive knock effects to create hours of disruption. so hopefully it will change for the better at the expense of a few journeys without a second staff member. end of the day disruption to my commute is ofter because of trains delays or cancelled due to a shortage of staff, where as once or twice a year due to an incident that required a second staff (obviously you'd see more incidents). and mostly delays initially due to signals or other track related problems.

 

[Ernest]

yep, and under the current system a little disruption has massive knock effects to create hours of disruption. so hopefully it will change for the better at the expense of a few journeys without a second staff member. end of the day disruption to my commute is ofter because of trains delays or cancelled due to a shortage of staff, where as once or twice a year due to an incident that required a second staff (obviously you'd see more incidents). and mostly delays initially due to signals or other track related problems.

Sod everyone else all that matters is you, at least we know to ignore anything you say (most of us did anyway before this)

 

[beorhthelm]

Sod everyone else all that matters is you, at least we know to ignore anything you say (most of us did anyway before this)

thats right im thinking only of me. not at all using my experince as an example for a couple hundred thousand others, put out for hours because a handful of guards are temporay displaced and because the trains dont run, they cant get back into place.