Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

M&S announced 500 job loses from their HQ this week, I've not heard of any planed strikes of M&S staff.

Well you won't have done, because M&S staff have no leverage outside of their own company.

 

[Arthur]

Well you won't have done, because M&S staff have no leverage outside of their own company.

So get rid of the union?? Totally agree!

 

[ROSM]

Hypothetical question: if SASTA proposed a change that involved job losses but irrefutably provided a service enhancement to customers, would the union:

a) Accept it - they want the best for the customers after all.
b) Reject it, protest and strike etc due to the job losses required.

Know you of such a proposal?


In any case isn't there at least an option c and maybe d to this

Option c being - critically review the proposals from all angles including safety, viability, likelihood of being delivered and minimising of job losses as well as looking to protect remaining employees.

 

[The Albion Roar]

They get filled with people who are unable to press a button to reset an alarm I assume? The consumer is still no worse off.

And therein lies the point. They're (SASTA) aren't filling those vacancies. They have no intention of doing so, and have admitted this.

Well no, but this is where the government need to step in and make sure they do stick to their word. Why couldn't Southern stick conductors on a contract until the end of their franchise? If they break it then they have to pay up the employee to the end of the contract term.

The government is part of the problem, not the solution. All of this is government-led; again something Southern admitted to at a public meeting a few weeks ago. The government isn't so much 'stepping in' as 'driving the whole thing'.

 

[beorhthelm]

And therein lies the point. They're (SASTA) aren't filling those vacancies. They have no intention of doing so, and have admitted this.

where is the information on these vacancies and where did they say they weren't trying to fill them? in my mind if you aren't trying to fill a role its because you don't have a vacancy. simplistic i know, but generally how organisations work, so wondering why and how we know Southern are different.

 

[Arthur]

And therein lies the point. They're (SASTA) aren't filling those vacancies. They have no intention of doing so, and have admitted this.

Well then there aren't 400+ vacancies then are there?

The government is part of the problem, not the solution. All of this is government-led; again something Southern admitted to at a public meeting a few weeks ago. The government isn't so much 'stepping in' as 'driving the whole thing'.

Well they are doing a very bad job of it. Lets hope this £20m task force improves things.

 

[Hotchilidog]

The government is part of the problem, not the solution. All of this is government-led; again something Southern admitted to at a public meeting a few weeks ago. The government isn't so much 'stepping in' as 'driving the whole thing'.

Which is why I hope the application to get judicial review of the government 'handling' of the situation by the crowdfunded commuters is successful.
They need to be held to account.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Is it just me - or is the strike losing impact?

Another one yesterday and today, but I'm not filled with anything like the dread I had when this thing all started. I've got myself a system now of driving to Three Bridges and catching a Thameslink to Blackfriars which gets me in at roughly the same time. I know this wouldn't work for everyone but talking and listening to my fellow commuters, pretty much all of them have now found a way of getting round the strikes to the point where it has become the norm and they can still do their paid jobs.

I can't believe any of us would want to do this every day but unless the unions walk out indefinitely, we won't have to. I know infrequent and one off travellers still suffer but the commuters are the bread and butter and we have learned to cope.

I know I will get flamed by those on the side of the guards in this (I'm neutral) but based on what I am now seeing as a daily London commuter, I think the unions are going to lose.

 

[The Albion Roar]

where is the information on these vacancies and where did they say they weren't trying to fill them? in my mind if you aren't trying to fill a role its because you don't have a vacancy. simplistic i know, but generally how organisations work, so wondering why and how we know Southern are different.

Charles Horton, CEO of GTR, told the Commons Transport Select Committee that, after consultations with the unions, they agreed that the company needed 490 permanent members of staff (in total, not new) to run the timetable. This was principally because the unions had warned GTR the previous year that the staffing levels were at breaking point, and - given that GTR relied on overtime and working on days off to run the service - they couldn't cope. If I recall correctly, they were about 80 staff short of a fully functional operatin.

The next day, Alex Foulds, Southern Passenger Services said at a public meeting that, with the introduction of the emergency timetable, the extra staff weren't coming. So either they had started a process of recruiting, and abandoned it, or they never started the process in the first place.

Well then there aren't 400+ vacancies then are there?

You're right, there aren't. They are around 80 staff short of a fully functioning roster. Which is different from saying there are vacancies.

Well they are doing a very bad job of it. Lets hope this £20m task force improves things.

I'm not hopeful. The government is still putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of GTR staff, and not Southern nor themselves (not that they would blame themselves).

"The package of measures follows unacceptable disruption for passengers in recent months, with many of the current issues caused by ongoing industrial action by the RMT as well as unofficial disruption and guards going off sick."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...o-help-improve-resilience-of-southern-network

They're also not clear as to where all of the £20m is going.

"Key additional benefits of the £20 million include:

• £2 million to be spent on more rapid response teams to fix faults more quickly, located close to known hotspots
• £2.5 million to be spent on accelerated train maintenance
• £0.8 million investment in extra signal supervisors to keep trains moving across the network
• £0.9 million investment in a series of measures to minimise the impact of bridge strikes"

Which doesn't make clear for where the other £13.8m is going.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Is it just me - or is the strike losing impact?

Another one yesterday and today, but I'm not filled with anything like the dread I had when this thing all started. I've got myself a system now of driving to Three Bridges and catching a Thameslink to Blackfriars which gets me in at roughly the same time. I know this wouldn't work for everyone but talking and listening to my fellow commuters, pretty much all of them have now found a way of getting round the strikes to the point where it has become the norm and they can still do their paid jobs.

I can't believe any of us would want to do this every day but unless the unions walk out indefinitely, we won't have to. I know infrequent and one off travellers still suffer but the commuters are the bread and butter and we have learned to cope.

I know I will get flamed by those on the side of the guards in this (I'm neutral) but based on what I am now seeing as a daily London commuter, I think the unions are going to lose.

I don't think they'll 'lose' if the passengers can see that they themselves won't 'win' if GTR / government gets their way.

That said, and I've said it before, I believe that the RMT and ASLEF (and all trade unions caught up in disputes) could always be far more imaginative in their industrial action - should it be required - in a way that hits the company, but doesn't hit the customer.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Is it just me - or is the strike losing impact?

Another one yesterday and today, but I'm not filled with anything like the dread I had when this thing all started. I've got myself a system now of driving to Three Bridges and catching a Thameslink to Blackfriars which gets me in at roughly the same time.

The impact of the strikes will always be dissipated while Thameslink services are running mainly unaffected during the strikes. Thameslink routes are more for commuters anyway, seeing as how they mainly service the City, rather than Southern services into Victoria which mainly service the tourist/day-tripper industry. To up the ante, would need the drivers of both Southern and Thameslink to down tools. Then we'd see an almost-instant escalation.

 

[beorhthelm]

Charles Horton, CEO of GTR, told the Commons Transport Select Committee that, after consultations with the unions, they agreed that the company needed 490 permanent members of staff (in total, not new) to run the timetable. This was principally because the unions had warned GTR the previous year that the staffing levels were at breaking point, and - given that GTR relied on overtime and working on days off to run the service - they couldn't cope. If I recall correctly, they were about 80 staff short of a fully functional operatin.

sounds like 80 vacancies to me, so why say 400 when thats the number employed?

 

[perseus]

Am I missing something? Southern's DOO proposal still has a second person on board, other than in exceptional circumstances which I thought the union were invited to discuss and help define.

A room for compromise (lose-lose situation; nobody is happy)

From a customer point of view (me) a 3 or 4 coach train is no more than a long bus (w/o traffic and cyclists) and I can't see why a specialist guard is needed !?

A 12 coach train is a different kettle altogether and a second guard's view might be needed for safety

That leaves 6 and 8 coach trains, disabled passengers getting on and off, and rowdy commuters, collecting fares etc.

20% corporation tax of £20 million on profits going back into infrastructure.

Tend to think that there is more wrong, old trains (new trains mean higher fares) and timetables could be improved dramatically ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

From a customer point of view (me) a 3 or 4 coach train is no more than a long bus (w/o traffic and cyclists) and I can't see why a specialist guard is needed !?

You ever been on the West Coast line when the schools come out? It's bloody mayhem. Even with a 3 or 4 coach train. All these hyperactive kids running up and down the platform, happy in the full knowledge that they're invincible and will live forever. But just in case it turns out they're not, maybe best to have a guard checking out the platform prior to departure. Just in case, eh?

 

[Bozza]

Know you of such a proposal?

No. I doubt one could actually exist, but I do wonder to what extent, with these unions, their raison d'être is job preservation at absolutely all costs. Which is fine if they're up front about it.

 

[Deadly Danson]

You ever been on the West Coast line when the schools come out? It's bloody mayhem. Even with a 3 or 4 coach train. All these hyperactive kids running up and down the platform, happy in the full knowledge that they're invincible and will live forever. But just in case it turns out they're not, maybe best to have a guard checking out the platform prior to departure. Just in case, eh?

It is absolute mayhem - virtually impossible to safely dispatch without a guard or platform staff during these times let alone if a wheelchair user should dare to just turn up and want to travel.

 

[perseus]

Lollipop Guards

You ever been on the West Coast line when the schools come out? It's bloody mayhem. Even with a 3 or 4 coach train. All these hyperactive kids running up and down the platform, happy in the full knowledge that they're invincible and will live forever. But just in case it turns out they're not, maybe best to have a guard checking out the platform prior to departure. Just in case, eh?

Compromise negotiations. PS: Don't take bus back from Steyning when schools are out for the day.

I avoid school trains unless it is raining.

NB: Without taking sides, the rail companies want to close the ticket offices and put the staff on the platform.

 

[Easy 10]

Compromise negotiations. PS: Don't take bus back from Steyning when schools are out for the day.

I avoid school trains unless it is raining.

Thats that sorted then.

Next.

 

[pasty]

It is absolute mayhem - virtually impossible to safely dispatch without a guard or platform staff during these times let alone if a wheelchair user should dare to just turn up and want to travel.

Or the onboard supervisor (or whatever they are going to be called) of course.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Or the onboard supervisor (or whatever they are going to be called) of course.

I believe the technical term is 'optional onboard trolley dolley' whose main function will be upselling SASTA scratchcards to the natives.