Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Hampster Gull]

didnt take too long for the red flag brigade to come out on this one. Workers unite, best to bring the country to its knees. Corbyns Britain

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

didnt take too long for the red flag brigade to come out on this one. Workers unite, best to bring the country to its knees. Corbyns Britain

Have you been drinking?

 

[Ernest]

Have you been drinking?

He doesn't need alcohol he is naturally STUPID

 

[Hampster Gull]

He doesn't need alcohol he is naturally STUPID

You remind me of a poor mans John McDonnell

 

[beorhthelm]

There have been seven days of strikes this year, which led to disruption on those days, and is irritating. There has, however, been a full-blown programme of worsening cancellations, instigated by GTR, which are nothing to do with strikes, sickness or any industrial action, even though they'd love you to gullibly believe that.

the ongoing cancellations are due to short staff, due to either Southern applying a strike ban in response to the original strikes, or a work to rule following the behaviour of Southern in response to the original strikes, or a combination of both. so we cant say they are nothing to do with strikes and industrial action when they are.

 

[Ernest]

the ongoing cancellations are due to short staff, due to either Southern applying a strike ban in response to the original strikes, or a work to rule following the behaviour of Southern in response to the original strikes, or a combination of both. so we cant say they are nothing to do with strikes and industrial action when they are.

Any proof or just making it up to fit what you want to be ?

 

[albionite]

the ongoing cancellations are due to short staff, due to either Southern applying a strike ban in response to the original strikes, or a work to rule following the behaviour of Southern in response to the original strikes, or a combination of both. so we cant say they are nothing to do with strikes and industrial action when they are.

You don't half talk out of your backside

 

[Diablo]

He doesn't need alcohol he is naturally STUPID

Pot calling the kettle black I believe..

 

[Diablo]

You don't half talk out of your backside

Another pot calling the kettle black

 

[bhanutz]

Any proof or just making it up to fit what you want to be ?

The public know! That is all....

 

[Arthur]

Interesting journey home this evening...pulled into Hurst Green, doors opened, people started to get off and the train rolled forward.

How on earth can that happen [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION]?

Was expecting the dreaded "would the conductor please contact the driver" announcement but it never came and nothing was mentioned by either member of staff.

 

[bhanutz]

Interesting journey home this evening...pulled into Hurst Green, doors opened, people started to get off and the train rolled forward.

How on earth can that happen [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION]?

Was expecting the dreaded "would the conductor please contact the driver" announcement but it never came and nothing was mentioned by either member of staff.

Probably cause it was sooooo rammed it was unsafe? But lets hear the 'we are only doing it for your safety' bollocks repeated...YOU CANT FOOL THE MASSES

 

[beorhthelm]

Any proof or just making it up to fit what you want to be ?

You don't half talk out of your backside

its the double act again. dont like it when put foward a point of view, but want actually point out whats incorrect or a correction. there was a adequate service (adequate being a relative term for Southern meaning most services mostly running ontime) then it all went terminally downhill in the spring with the original strike. you can argue it was either the sickness, or the withdrawal of staff from overtime on the basis of my points. since im not accepting the sickness is responsible (or if its a factor the problem is still insufficient staff covering), i have to conclude its withdrawal of staff from overtime - for whatever reason. the root problem is of course relying on overtime in the first place, as we know that this is situation that is decades old this is not the trigger reason for our current service.

so is it the sickness, restricted overtime, or can you tell me otherwise?

 

[Soulman]

Interesting journey home this evening...pulled into Hurst Green, doors opened, people started to get off and the train rolled forward.

How on earth can that happen [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION]?

Was expecting the dreaded "would the conductor please contact the driver" announcement but it never came and nothing was mentioned by either member of staff.

Maybe with the disruption this is just rolling stock...............

 

[bhanutz]

its the double act again. dont like it when put foward a point of view, but want actually point out whats incorrect or a correction. there was a adequate service (adequate being a relative term for Southern meaning most services mostly running ontime) then it all went terminally downhill in the spring with the original strike. you can argue it was either the sickness, or the withdrawal of staff from overtime on the basis of my points. since im not accepting the sickness is responsible (or if its a factor the problem is still insufficient staff covering), i have to conclude its withdrawal of staff from overtime - for whatever reason. the root problem is of course relying on overtime in the first place, as we know that this is situation that is decades old this is not the trigger reason for our current service.

so is it the sickness, restricted overtime, or can you tell me otherwise?

It cause they haven't got their union rep available to get advice about a suitable response...

 

[The Albion Roar]

the ongoing cancellations are due to short staff, due to either Southern applying a strike ban in response to the original strikes, or a work to rule following the behaviour of Southern in response to the original strikes, or a combination of both. so we cant say they are nothing to do with strikes and industrial action when they are.

Wrong. The shortage of staff is a shortage of staff - as in the members of staff don't exist.

It has been like it for ages. The unions warned GTR that they were perilously short of staff 18 months ago - and the situation was getting worse - even when covering overtime and days off - and GTR promised to remedy it. Since then, they've gone back on that promise (something they've admitted to), and are not recruiting the necessary staff at present.

On one day last month, Charles Horton said at the Commons Select Committee that they would employ the relevant numbers of staff. The very next day, Southern managers at a public meeting said the exact opposite.

 

[The Albion Roar]

its the double act again. dont like it when put foward a point of view, but want actually point out whats incorrect or a correction. there was a adequate service (adequate being a relative term for Southern meaning most services mostly running ontime) then it all went terminally downhill in the spring with the original strike. you can argue it was either the sickness, or the withdrawal of staff from overtime on the basis of my points. since im not accepting the sickness is responsible (or if its a factor the problem is still insufficient staff covering), i have to conclude its withdrawal of staff from overtime - for whatever reason. the root problem is of course relying on overtime in the first place, as we know that this is situation that is decades old this is not the trigger reason for our current service.

so is it the sickness, restricted overtime, or can you tell me otherwise?

Wrong again.

Last Autumn, Southern were forced by the DfT to come up with a Remedial Plan, which they did in February, way before the industrial action started. This plan, among other things, allowed Southern to cancel even more trains than they had been - and this increase in cancellations started before last Autumn.

Since then, Southern's Remedial Plan has gone out of the window, and they took the arbitrary decision, without consultation with the DfT, nor with passengers or safety groups, to cut 15% of the service in order to run a 'good service'.

So no, these problems really didn't start with the industrial action. They started way before that. And they're not directly linked. As I said, seven days' industrial action does NOT lead to tens of thousands, may be over 100,000 trains being cancelled every day for the past few months.

You have been told this so many times, so wherever your self-formed hypothetical ideas are coming from, they don't have in basis in the reality of what has happened. Your conclusions are gibberish.

 

[beorhthelm]

Wrong. The shortage of staff is a shortage of staff - as in the members of staff don't exist.

It has been like it for ages.

granted the staff do not exist to properly man the service. and as you say its been like that for ages. so why have we seen such a significant deterioration of service since May? whats has changed? the remedial plan was for drivers (again, understaffed), while that did see more cancellations it was nowhere near the magnitude since the srping.

by focusing on the 7 days of strike action alone, you appear to be denying there has been any impact on staff overtime, which supporters of the action have brought to our attention. i base my conclusion on what i see and read from the contributors here and elsewhere, for some reason i say what supporters of the action say is going on, put a different context and it becomes rubbish. you seem to be trying to conclude that there is no reason for the cancellations and delays and that hundreds of services a day are just being cancelled Southern on a whim, or to paint the staff and union in a poor light. i dont credit Southern with the capacity to orchestrate such a conspriacy.

i do appreciate you debating the points and making a case though.

 

[Yoda]

Wrong again.

Last Autumn, Southern were forced by the DfT to come up with a Remedial Plan, which they did in February, way before the industrial action started. This plan, among other things, allowed Southern to cancel even more trains than they had been - and this increase in cancellations started before last Autumn.

Since then, Southern's Remedial Plan has gone out of the window, and they took the arbitrary decision, without consultation with the DfT, nor with passengers or safety groups, to cut 15% of the service in order to run a 'good service'.

So no, these problems really didn't start with the industrial action. They started way before that. And they're not directly linked. As I said, seven days' industrial action does NOT lead to tens of thousands, may be over 100,000 trains being cancelled every day for the past few months.

You have been told this so many times, so wherever your self-formed hypothetical ideas are coming from, they don't have in basis in the reality of what has happened. Your conclusions are gibberish.

Exactly. LAST Summer, Southern (excluding Thameslink & GE) were lucky to get just over 70% of trains running on time* on the mainline. The information is on their own website, all you have to do is look it up.

*Based on the industries "Within 5 minutes" rule.

 

[The Albion Roar]

by focusing on the 7 days of strike action alone, you appear to be denying there has been any impact on staff overtime, which supporters of the action have brought to our attention.

There are very few people who support industrial action, if anyone at all. People, however, do support the staff, especially in the way they're being treated.

The issue of staffing is down to Southern. If the staff collectively or individually choose to work overtime or on days off, that's up to them. But to believe that not working overtime is a form of industrial action is pathetic and insulting. There is no contractural obligation for any member of staff to work overtime or on days off, yet the refusal - for the most part - of staff to do so on behalf of a company which is treating them like shit, is somehow being used as a stick to beat them with.

you seem to be trying to conclude that there is no reason for the cancellations and delays and that hundreds of services a day are just being cancelled Southern on a whim, or to paint the staff and union in a poor light. i dont credit Southern with the capacity to orchestrate such a conspriacy.

That's because the 'conspiracy' (I'll call it a programme) hasn't been orchestrated by Southern. It has been orchestrated by the government. And they've pretty much admitted that.

The government itself has said that the principle intention of doing what they're doing is to 'smash the unions', all the while assuming people will support them in doing so. In other words, the government started this fight.

They started arbitrarily cancelling trains, and making it look like the staff and unions were to blame. There is, however, nothing to back this up. There has been a small increase in the numbers of staff sickness, but nothing like enough to cancel the number of trains on the larcenous basis that Southern has been doing.

Southern isn't the franchise holder - even the government can see they're too shit for that - it's a contractor for HM Government. Therefore, Southern will do what HMG tells them. GTR and RMT have come very close to settling the disputes, only for the DfT to come in at the last minute and torpedo the deal.

The government constantly tells us 'removing Southern's franchise (sic) won't change anything'. And they're probably right, because whoever takes over the running of these trains will still be at the government's beck and call. The Remedial Plan was supposedly a 'final straw' for Southern, but seeing as the alternative for the government is to either take it back into public ownership and operation - which will be seen as a failure of private enterprise - their best option is to keep the status quo as it is.

Why? Because people are still blaming GTR, and that is a wonderful lightning rod for the government. Only when people turn their attention to the government will they sit up. Until then...

What hasn't helped is the RMT stupidly falling into the government's trap of going on strike, and losing a small part of the 'hearts and minds' battle with the public; a battle they ought to win back when people see Southern/HMG continuing its farcical programme of arbitrary cancellations.