Southend goals

[Stumpy Tim]

But what has this got to do with anything that happened tonight?

Are you saying that all threads on NSC stick to the subject?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I thought it was when we were defending a throw-in and then they won the corner .... I could be mistaken but even if I am and it was a corner, would you not want a big "guy" in there rather than a little "paul"?

You can't mess up the defensive makeup of a team at a corner - a time when all want to do is defend. This is not about Guy making any mistake, it's about changin the defensive organisation at a corner which we had coped with the other 87 minutes. Wilkins should have waited for us to boot the ball out for a throw-in and made the sub then

 

[London Irish]

Are you saying that all threads on NSC stick to the subject?

fair point

 

[London Irish]

You can't mess up the defensive makeup of a team at a corner - a time when all want to do is defend. This is not about Guy making any mistake, it's about changin the defensive organisation at a corner which we had coped with the other 87 minutes. Wilkins should have waited for us to boot the ball out for a throw-in and made the sub then

I don't agree. That is just hindsight talking, Monday morning quarterbacking as the Yanks say (Wednesday morning?) Southend were taking the battle to the air, we HAD to bring Tank on. Wilkins would have been remiss NOT to. We had time to organise ourselves at the corner. The substitution stopped the game and allowed the coaches to have an input into defending it. Tank for Reid INCREASED our chances of defending it. It was, unfortunately, a very good set piece, right on the edge of that point which worries keepers, should I claim it or not? Sadly, the Southend forward was first to it when it dropped.

The second goal was a wonder volley - reminded me of Matthew Rose for QPR when they won at the end of a Withdean game about two years ago, it just came out of nowhere, undefendable.

My problem is, confidence in McGhee along fans was eventually destroyed by a lot of unfair criticism of his substitutions - people saying, "if only he hadn't done this, or had done this, we would have won". I'm sorry, no one knows what would have happened, yet everyone is an expert. We destroyed McGhee in this way, let's not start on Wilkins.

Look at the bigger picture, which was tonight that we frustrated a better team than us and very nearly won. Credit to the manager for nearly pulling that off.

 

[m20gull]

It's not hindsight. As soon as it was obvious a sub was coming on I was thinking "surely that's not a Brighton sub when we have a corner to defend?" then when I realised it was a Brighton sub I was thinking "but it can't be a defender". the substitution was exactly the right substitution at the right stage of the match - Reid seemed to be carrying a knock - but the timing was woeful.

Judging by Butters' tirade after the goal I would guess that Lynch lost his man.

Plenty of credit tonight - great goal from Tiny and well matched a competent Championship side, apart from the goals. And do I hear a mention for Kerry?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I don't agree. That is just hindsight talking, Monday morning quarterbacking as the Yanks say (Wednesday morning?) Southend were taking the battle to the air, we HAD to bring Tank on. Wilkins would have been remiss NOT to. We had time to organise ourselves at the corner. The substitution stopped the game and allowed the coaches to have an input into defending it. Tank for Reid INCREASED our chances of defending it. It was, unfortunately, a very good set piece, right on the edge of that point which worries keepers, should I claim it or not? Sadly, the Southend forward was first to it when it dropped.

The second goal was a wonder volley - reminded me of Matthew Rose for QPR when they won at the end of a Withdean game about two years ago, it just came out of nowhere, undefendable.

My problem is, confidence in McGhee along fans was eventually destroyed by a lot of unfair criticism of his substitutions - people saying, "if only he hadn't done this, or had done this, we would have won". I'm sorry, no one knows what would have happened, yet everyone is an expert. We destroyed McGhee in this way, let's not start on Wilkins.

Look at the bigger picture, which was tonight that we frustrated a better team than us and very nearly won. Credit to the manager for nearly pulling that off.

Got to agree with m20 here LI. It is very well known in football that you NEVER make a defensive sub at a corner. It is BASIC football management... never ever ever, unless a player is unable even to take a post. This is nothing about stating the obvious in hindsight. I don't doubt that bringing Guy on for Reidy was the right sub to make, but you simply don't make such a sub at a corner.

But as you say, the fact that we came so close to beating Southend is also down to Wilkins & the players and they deserve the credit. I'm sure Wilkins is man enough to take the praise he deserves for the performance & the flak for making a substitution at the wrong time

 

[dwayne]

Impossible to see from the albion end who's fault it was for the 1st goal (it was just a big goalmouth scramble)

....however everyone around where I was sitting made the comment that you should never make a sub at a corner

we were unlucky to lose that.

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

It seems that the sub was not made during the preparations for a corner, therefore most of the hot air expelled on here has been in vain.

It seems that may just have been a little bit unlucky last night. yet it appears someone always has to be BLAMED at this club. Give me strength! With fans like ours who the hell needs enemies.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

No, McGhee would blame everyone else expect him.

Kuipers would be my bet.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

It seems that may just have been a little bit unlucky last night. yet it appears someone always has to be BLAMED at this club.

Ok. I blame Row Z Creased Shirt

 

[Marshy]

I dont see a problem bringing Butters before the corner, and the goal had nothing to do with the substitution.

Its not rocket science is it...they all have there men they are picking up as they had been doing it for 80 mins, so Butters only has to pick up Reids man it should take 5 secs to organise.

10 mins to go, 1 up i think i would be looking to firm things up with a tactical defensive substitution.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

You are spot on. Southend tried 3 gameplans tonight:

No1 - they tried to pass through us mainly through Gower and Maher and Eastwood, after some promise early on, we frustrated them. So then they tried:

No2 - give the ball all the time to Campbell-Ryce to run through us. Bless him, Kerry stood tall when Tilson switched him over to his wing. We scored, so it was then last chance saloon and:

No3 - pump long ball into their front men and hope. Made sense to take a little man off and put Butters on. He defended his man Sodje OK but someone else wasn't doing their job, a defender or the keeper, hard to say, it was a very scrappy goal.

Good substitution by Wilkins but just desperately bad luck. We played well tonight and deserved extra time at the very least.

Love is in the air.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

the substitution was exactly the right substitution at the right stage of the match but the timing was woeful.

Spaz

 

[London Irish]

Got to agree with m20 here LI. It is very well known in football that you NEVER make a defensive sub at a corner.

Disagree - it's a superstition. Well known amongst whom? Obviously not our joint managers and a few more besides that.

 

[London Irish]

I dont see a problem bringing Butters before the corner, and the goal had nothing to do with the substitution.

Its not rocket science is it...they all have there men they are picking up as they had been doing it for 80 mins, so Butters only has to pick up Reids man it should take 5 secs to organise.

10 mins to go, 1 up i think i would be looking to firm things up with a tactical defensive substitution.

Common sense - but apparently it angers the football Gods

 

[CHAPPERS]

Disagree - it's a superstition. Well known amongst whom? Obviously not our joint managers and a few more besides that.

Superstition? Really?

I thought teams didn't make subs at corners because it doesn't allow them to get properly organised to defend said corner?

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Superstition? Really?

I thought teams didn't make subs at corners because it doesn't allow them to get properly organised to defend said corner?

Absolutely. It can also affect the concentration of the rest of the team as it clearly did. We had been okay off set pieces before that. I don't think that is coincidence.

Look at the World Cup when Sweden made a substitution before Larsson was taking a penalty against Germany and he missed. Even if it affects concentration for a split second that can be enough.

 

[London Irish]

Superstition? Really?

I thought teams didn't make subs at corners because it doesn't allow them to get properly organised to defend said corner?

In fact, it allows you more time. The game stopped for at least a minute as the referee allowed time for the substitution to be made and for Butters to take his place in the defence, only then did he blow the whistle and restart the game. The Albion players had longer than at any other set piece in the game to find their marked man.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Personally I don't think the goal was anyone's fault. We played really well but were unlucky... end of. As for substituting at a corner every AMATEUR manager knows not to do it because we don't train and train and train and learn systems of defence so when we take a player off at a corner no-one knows what their role is. However, professional teams spend hours and hours on tactics and should have been able to change formation quickly and easily before the corner was taken. So, too easy to blame Wilkins for that one... unless your a Football manager hero, that is....

 

[algie]

You are spot on. Southend tried 3 gameplans tonight:

No1 - they tried to pass through us mainly through Gower and Maher and Eastwood, after some promise early on, we frustrated them. So then they tried:

No2 - give the ball all the time to Campbell-Ryce to run through us. Bless him, Kerry stood tall when Tilson switched him over to his wing. We scored, so it was then last chance saloon and:

No3 - pump long ball into their front men and hope. Made sense to take a little man off and put Butters on. He defended his man Sodje OK but someone else wasn't doing their job, a defender or the keeper, hard to say, it was a very scrappy goal.

Good substitution by Wilkins but just desperately bad luck. We played well tonight and deserved extra time at the very least.

Actually thats wrong.You don't sub a player when your defending a corner.Most managers know this.It disprupts things which it proved last night.As i said that was basic management error