Something For Nothing!

[Twinkle Toes]

I am not aligned to any party I view them all with skepticism, but the old cliches from the left are discredited and a throw back to the bitter socialism that has since been dropped even by Labour, its all just a little predictable.

Offer a view on a minimum wage fine, give your argument to why the public sector should be kept untouched and of course ensure that the big corporations pay their fair share, beyond the usual socialist rant, most would accept some discussion on all of these are relevant but why shouldn't those those on long term unemployment endure a level of scrutiny that everyone else has to, if they need to arrive at a place at a certain time on a certain day to receive their money, frigging well do it, we have to.

I'd sooner be a person who still maintains their socialist convictions - than a patronising, self-righteous, self-styled ringmaster of 'valid' political opinion on a football forum. I sincerely believe that the only way you could truly understand the realities of unemployment is if your gainful employment ended tomorrow: & you found yourself attempting to access the comparative pittance you may eventually receive. But that couldn't possibly happen to you & yours could it? Our wonderful Government(s) will always fully support those who are willing to help themselves...

 

[The Large One]

My evidence is what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears. When you walk through any given town on a weekday, surely they can't all be seeking jobs swigging out of their can off Tennants Blue, while rolling a fag and stroking the dog, they get a bit extra for....and this is suppose to be a nice town.....pmsl....I'd go even further, from now on I would restrict all single mothers on benefits to only 1 child. There are a lot of old slappers out there who see laying on their backs and farming out children a lifestyle choice.... Personally I don't care if some girl wants 5 kids from five different blokes but i'm buggered if the tax payer should foot the bill for it.....and yes I am even more grumpy first thing in the morning because i'd rather be laying in my bed, than going off to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you're moving in the wrong circles then, kev.

Try raising your game a little - intellectually and socially.

Go on, be a devil - try putting some thought into your posts, rather than trusting your prejudices and fantasies.

 

[sten_super]

The more I think about it, the more crazy I think it is. It's effectively a way around minimum wage legislation - the government and private firms can sack low paid workers (accepting that a lot of people on higher wages have also been made unemployed and will suffer through this legislation) and then bring them back into the firm through this 'pay to work' scheme, at half (or less) of the cost.

I am genuinely amazed that anyone thinks this is a good idea. I understand that the vast majority of government MPs come from a rich middle-class, but that doesn't absolve them of having a social conscience. If the way out of unemployment is to effectively hand people jobs then please do that (accepting the large dose of abuse that Labour will deservedly dish out as you do so) but give it to them on at least a minimum wage (hell, the public sector should be setting the example by using a living wage) and give them some respect.

The government may claim that employment is up, but the erosion of worker rights (through first the increasing commonality of zero hours contracts and latterly the weakening of minimum wage legislation) under this government has been horrendous - what are the long term costs of this 'increase' in employment going to be?

 

[BigGully]

I'd sooner be a person who still maintains their socialist convictions - than a patronising, self-righteous, self-styled ringmaster of 'valid' political opinion on a football forum. I sincerely believe that the only way you could truly understand the realities of unemployment is if your gainful employment ended tomorrow: & you found yourself attempting to access the comparative pittance you may eventually receive. But that couldn't possibly happen to you & yours could it? Our wonderful Government(s) will always fully support those who are willing to help themselves...

You cannot quite see through your political dogma, irrespective where our economy might be you will always be bitter, you have had no modern political party represent your views for over generation.

If you cared to put down your 'Socialist Workers' paper for a moment, you might learn that I have been unemployed and in receipt of benefits, in all honesty at the time I found my brief time on benefits as a welcome break from the rigors of self employment, I genuinely felt it was generous rather than just supportive, but it helped and I was grateful.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You know fine well I am talking about adults. Although I not a fan of keeping hundreds of thousands of teenagers in further education just to massage the true unemployment figures.

Whilst I do undertsand your point, if there are not jobs / apprenticeships available for these hundreds of thousands of teenagers, do you not feel that they are better served by gaining two more years education, and the life skills (time management, etc) associated with it, than sitting at home playing with their xbox?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

We discussed this at work yesterday where everyone apart from first line managers and above are hourly paid and 98% are part time on between 3 and 28 hours a week plus there are a few staff with 25+ years service who have kept full time status. Team Leaders get their hours boosted up to full time and get paid an extra 50p an hour to be trainee managers and/or don't want to be dependent on overtime. The fear is there is nothing to stop our employer taking on JSA/Universal Credit claimants for a 8 week "work experience trial" and then replacing them with a new batch every 8 weeks which eliminates the need to pay single rate overtime to existing staff who need supplementary hours to make their wages up.

 

[Titanic]

We discussed this at work yesterday where everyone apart from first line managers and above are hourly paid and 98% are part time on between 3 and 28 hours a week plus there are a few staff with 25+ years service who have kept full time status. Team Leaders get their hours boosted up to full time and get paid an extra 50p an hour to be trainee managers and/or don't want to be dependent on overtime. The fear is there is nothing to stop our employer taking on JSA/Universal Credit claimants for a 8 week "work experience trial" and then replacing them with a new batch every 8 weeks which eliminates the need to pay single rate overtime to existing staff who need supplementary hours to make their wages up.

If your jobs can really be done effectively by an unskilled and unemployed person, who has show that they are not willing or able to find other work, and who has no more than 8 weeks 'experience' in the role, then I would agree they may be at put risk by such a scheme. I would seriously doubt that there are many such jobs, where the management could really continue to deliver an effective service with that sort of churn of unskilled staff.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I'd sooner be a person who still maintains their socialist convictions - than a patronising, self-righteous, self-styled ringmaster of 'valid' political opinion on a football forum. I sincerely believe that the only way you could truly understand the realities of unemployment is if your gainful employment ended tomorrow: & you found yourself attempting to access the comparative pittance you may eventually receive. But that couldn't possibly happen to you & yours could it? Our wonderful Government(s) will always fully support those who are willing to help themselves...

Can I marry you Dee?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

You cannot quite see through your political dogma, irrespective where our economy might be you will always be bitter, you have had no modern political party represent your views for over generation.

If you cared to put down your 'Socialist Workers' paper for a moment, you might learn that I have been unemployed and in receipt of benefits, in all honesty at the time I found my brief time on benefits as a welcome break from the rigors of self employment, I genuinely felt it was generous rather than just supportive, but it helped and I was grateful.

There's one thing evident from tis post. You are not inclined to put aside your dogma or put down your copy of the Daily Mail for that matter.

Tell us then, Thatcher, how you propose to police this 30 hour a week enforced labour of the feckless? There's 200 thousand of them at the moment...also, how is making someone sign on every day or attend " mandatory intervention" whatever that is going to leave them any time to apply for paid work, attend interviews or anything else for that matter?

Just asking.

 

[BigGully]

There's one thing evident from tis post. You are not inclined to put aside your dogma or put down your copy of the Daily Mail for that matter.

Tell us then, Thatcher, how you propose to police this 30 hour a week enforced labour of the feckless? There's 200 thousand of them at the moment...also, how is making someone sign on every day or attend " mandatory intervention" whatever that is going to leave them any time to apply for paid work, attend interviews or anything else for that matter?

Just asking.

Are you serious, if the terms of their ''mandatory intervention'' includes having to 'sign on' at the job centre, would it not be beyond the realms of possibility that they access at the time the expertise of those that work within the job centre and to access their associated job finding tools.

You seem to be forgetting that after 24 months of unemployment, it might show that they do not have the necessary skills or personal discipline to successfully seek employment, so unless you are the 'feckless' it seems a great opportunity to improve your chances of successfully joining the workforce.

The policing seems quite clear, if you dont abide by the rules then sanctions might apply, including a diminishing benefit payment.

Its a sanction that those in work have had to endure, turn up, on time, right place then you are likely to significantly improve your chances of employment, seems fair.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Why should people get money for nothing.....They don't have to do if, they just lose their benefits if they don't. Seems fair enough to me, in fact it's a fantastic policy.

I usually read a thread to the end before commenting but this post was sooooooooo STUPID that I'm posting straight away ( someone will probably have commented already ! ).

I'm guessing you've never been unemployed ? The suggestion that someone is getting something for nothing is frankly idiotic. Over my working life I've paid tens of thousands of pounds worth of tax. If I become unemployed I don't think it unreasonable that some of that stupidly high amount of tax is used to pay me JSA. Therefore I have already worked for that JSA. My partner has been out of work over the last few years and I can assure you it isn't the walk in the park that twonks like you think it is. Constant fear of losing your home etc, sleepless nights and then the stigma from (unts that don't know what they're talking about because you're on JSA.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

£70 a week is more than enough to live on, bearing in mind they get there rent paid and pay about a fiver council tax.

wrong !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

There is certainly no reason to be out of work around this area. Unless you think certain jobs are beneath you, which is a lot of the problem.

Oh my effing God !!!!!!! You're either very naive or very stupid !

 

[brightonrock]

Constant fear of losing your home etc, sleepless nights and then the stigma from (unts that don't know what they're talking about because you're on JSA.

Welcome to (a) Tory Britain and (b) NSC threads about politics. Turns out a number of fellow albion fans are arrogant, selfish & ignorant, and show utter contempt for their fellow man.

Oh my effing God !!!!!!! You're either very naive or very stupid !

It's the latter.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

If your jobs can really be done effectively by an unskilled and unemployed person, who has show that they are not willing or able to find other work, and who has no more than 8 weeks 'experience' in the role, then I would agree they may be at put risk by such a scheme. I would seriously doubt that there are many such jobs, where the management could really continue to deliver an effective service with that sort of churn of unskilled staff.

There are 3 million jobs in the retail sector that management could target.

 

[father_and_son]

So, you're the only taxpayer on here then? I pay massive amounts of tax too and I don't agree that people on benefits should be humbled in this way. This tag of " benefits brigade" is offensive and tells me all I need to know about your politics. You are a small minded Tory who likes to label those without jobs as scroungers and wasters who need a good kick up the arse if they're going to deserve any of your little pennies.

I hope you never find yourself on benefits mate, seriously I do, but if you had ever been forced to claim you'd have a very different opinion.

Ha! As one agreeing with BB, I find you comments well left of the mark. I agree with BB but have been forced to claim. It was the kick up the arse I needed to get my life together. I now pay a shocking amount of personal tax (more each month than I ever claimed from the system).
Being on benefits should not be a "nice" experience, it should be humbling and humiliating, because it should be something you are motivated to fight tooth and nail to avoid or escape from.

There are, in the main, two types of people on benefits.... those who use it as a safety net and see turning up at that office to sign on is a very humiliating experience but turn things around, get off their arse and work f*cking hard to become a net contributor to the system. There are also those who see it as a life-style choice who by their own laziness or the generosity of the system become dependent on it and spend years doing nothing but take from the system.
[The only other category, as I have said before, are those who cannot earn a living wage and are fully deserving of continued support in any civilised society]

I resent having the p*ss taken by people without the decency to make an effort and again by those who defend them.

 

[Danny-Boy]

You do realise this is a two way street ?

The principle is fine, but the danger is that you replace "real jobs" with work schemes, trapping those who are willing to work As already mentioned, it can become another opportunity for unscrupulous businesses to get free labour.

I worked on the "Community Programme" for a year in 1987/88 before Maggie pulled the plug on it. I always thought it was an excellent scheme, from memory I got about £100 a week, much betther than the dole.

The trouble wasa the name, a lot of the Yuppies and other Tory grandees branded it in with the Community Service run by prison authorities. I was based in a Wildlife Centre and would willingly have culled all the smart-arses who asked me what crime I had committed.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

It is some people's jobs to pick up litter, clean graffiti etc. If this is being done by long term JSA, effectively on the cheap, what happens to these real jobs that suddenly become undercut?

 

[hybrid_x]

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Ha! As one agreeing with BB, I find you comments well left of the mark. I agree with BB but have been forced to claim. It was the kick up the arse I needed to get my life together. I now pay a shocking amount of personal tax (more each month than I ever claimed from the system).
Being on benefits should not be a "nice" experience, it should be humbling and humiliating, because it should be something you are motivated to fight tooth and nail to avoid or escape from.

There are, in the main, two types of people on benefits.... those who use it as a safety net and see turning up at that office to sign on is a very humiliating experience but turn things around, get off their arse and work f*cking hard to become a net contributor to the system. There are also those who see it as a life-style choice who by their own laziness or the generosity of the system become dependent on it and spend years doing nothing but take from the system.
[The only other category, as I have said before, are those who cannot earn a living wage and are fully deserving of continued support in any civilised society]

I resent having the p*ss taken by people without the decency to make an effort and again by those who defend them.

There is something in this. Like I said, there is a percentage of the jobless who in a few generations have gone from the working class, proud but hard working class, to the not working class who are on the scrap heap from the moment their born in some ex colliery town up north or into a sink estate on the outskirts of one of our cities.

The ambition of Osborne and co. is quite clear. Kill THREE birds with one stone...

1. There's too many Romanians and other undesirables coming in to pick turnips for 3 quid a day. It's pissing people in Peterborough off because there's no school places or hospital beds that aren't full of the buggers

2. There's too many layabouts watching Sky TV on their plasma screen whilst sipping a chivas regal in their elegant townhouse all paid for by benefits!...they should be working in the fields picking turnips for 3 quid a day...or picking up Dogshit at the very least.

3. If we whip the doleites hard enough they'll beg us for the chance to pick turnips on his lordships estate for 3 quid a day, or sort out the Dogshit issue at the very least...then the Romanians won't have a below minimum wage to take off one of our own layabouts so will go to France instead.

hey presto. His Lordship is happy as he has his turnips picked for 3 quid a day, there's an army of former spongers crawling round the parks picking up Dogshit (but have their pride restored) and the Romanians have gone home with the Albanians and all the other johnnies.

Dear Christ.