Something For Nothing!

[El Presidente]

Bet you didnt

I certainly don't BG!

 

[kevo]

So, you're the only taxpayer on here then? I pay massive amounts of tax too and I don't agree that people on benefits should be humbled in this way. This tag of " benefits brigade" is offensive and tells me all I need to know about your politics. You are a small minded Tory who likes to label those without jobs as scroungers and wasters who need a good kick up the arse if they're going to deserve any of your little pennies.

I hope you never find yourself on benefits mate, seriously I do, but if you had ever been forced to claim you'd have a very different opinion.

Well said.

 

[BigGully]

So, you're the only taxpayer on here then? I pay massive amounts of tax too and I don't agree that people on benefits should be humbled in this way. This tag of " benefits brigade" is offensive and tells me all I need to know about your politics. You are a small minded Tory who likes to label those without jobs as scroungers and wasters who need a good kick up the arse if they're going to deserve any of your little pennies.

I hope you never find yourself on benefits mate, seriously I do, but if you had ever been forced to claim you'd have a very different opinion.

Why do you think that those in receipt of benefits are unable to deal with the dynamics of reasonable scrutiny.

The employed experience this every single day, its a process of work/life that we must all endure, it can be frustrating, difficult and challenging but its inevitable and wholly necessary.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I was unemployed for 6 months more then 22 years ago and haven't been since. I spent three of those months spunking my redundancy and having the time of my life and the other three skint on benefits. If it wasn't for a friend recommending me for a job I'd have probably been long term instead of having the decent career I currently do. Fine margins and I wouldn't repeat those last three months for anything.

Once long term I'd have been unemployable. At one of the offices I consult in at the moment they are currently hiring and tend to bin cvs where the candidate hasn't worked for the last six months.

 

[kevo]

Why do you think that those in receipt of benefits are unable to deal with the dynamics of reasonable scrutiny

Nothing wrong with reasonable scrutiny to check people are actively seeking employment. If the government wants to clamp down on those it thinks aren't trying hard enough, there's lots of ways it could do it. Making people work for benefits is a whole different issue.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Why do you think that those in receipt of benefits are unable to deal with the dynamics of reasonable scrutiny.

The employed experience this every single day, its a process of work/life that we must all endure, it can be frustrating, difficult and challenging but its inevitable and wholly necessary.

Benefits claimants ARE scrutinised and monitored. There is an obligation to prove one is seeking work by applying for 10 jobs a day at least which is filled in in a diary and can be checked arbitrarily by a civil servant. They are involved in frequent correspondence with the DWP over ntitlement or not to various elements of JSA and have to sit for an hour every other week at the Jobcentre having aspects of their personal life examined. They can be asked to attend spurious training sessions on computer skills, CV writing etc delivered, often by trainers with far fewer qualifications and experience than the job seeker themselves.

It's mean spirited and harsh to imagine that these guys are sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, it's humiliating and demeaning and, frankly, insulting to hear the Tories describe their fellow citizens in such a way.

I was unemployed following the sudden collapse of my employer and after working since I was 16 with never a claim for anything and after paying close to a million quid in taxes..it lasted six months and I was nearly suicidal by the end of it. The fear for my home and kids, the pitiful benefits I was entitled to and the grinding misery of being talked down to and patronised by the Jobcentre people (well meaning as they were) was one of the lowest periods of my life. I have worked in senior management for years, have had massive work stress and handled major problems at work. NONE of that compares to the stress and sheer terror of being unemployed.

Those of you pointing fingers and imagining that there's millions of layabouts just sponging are just dead wrong. There's some who are...of course, there's probably some wasters in your workplace too, but the majority are decent folk who count as much as you or I. The Tories want to beat up poor people and force them into working for free...it's plain wrong and is a frankly disgusting scheme.

 

[kevtherev]

So Mr Know All, can you put some meat to the bone and enlighten as to what percentage are genuine and what aren't. Your words imply you think it is the majority that are work shy rather than a minority.

Then you read my words right. I do think the majority of people long term unemployed either don't want to work or won't work for what they perceive to be not enough wages for them to make the effort. There is certainly no reason to be out of work around this area. Unless you think certain jobs are beneath you, which is a lot of the problem.

 

[BigGully]

Benefits claimants ARE scrutinised and monitored. There is an obligation to prove one is seeking work by applying for 10 jobs a day at least which is filled in in a diary and can be checked arbitrarily by a civil servant. They are involved in frequent correspondence with the DWP over ntitlement or not to various elements of JSA and have to sit for an hour every other week at the Jobcentre having aspects of their personal life examined. They can be asked to attend spurious training sessions on computer skills, CV writing etc delivered, often by trainers with far fewer qualifications and experience than the job seeker themselves.

It's mean spirited and harsh to imagine that these guys are sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, it's humiliating and demeaning and, frankly, insulting to hear the Tories describe their fellow citizens in such a way.

I was unemployed following the sudden collapse of my employer and after working since I was 16 with never a claim for anything and after paying close to a million quid in taxes..it lasted six months and I was nearly suicidal by the end of it. The fear for my home and kids, the pitiful benefits I was entitled to and the grinding misery of being talked down to and patronised by the Jobcentre people (well meaning as they were) was one of the lowest periods of my life. I have worked in senior management for years, have had massive work stress and handled major problems at work. NONE of that compares to the stress and sheer terror of being unemployed.

Those of you pointing fingers and imagining that there's millions of layabouts just sponging are just dead wrong. There's some who are...of course, there's probably some wasters in your workplace too, but the majority are decent folk who count as much as you or I. The Tories want to beat up poor people and force them into working for free...it's plain wrong and is a frankly disgusting scheme.

This needn't vilify those on long term unemployment, the role of any government is to firstly ensure qualification and then try and engineer a pathway to employment.

Just to withdraw any initiative under the premise it might humiliate isnt the answer, a more challenging environment that explores, supports, cajole's and if needed sanctions might offer opportunities that otherwise would never materialise.

The working environment offers the same, why deny this to those that perhaps need it most, or is it an inverted prejudice, can the long term unemployed aspire to a working life.

Doing nothing isnt an option.

 

[drew]

Then you read my words right. I do think the majority of people long term unemployed either don't want to work or won't work for what they perceive to be not enough wages for them to make the effort. There is certainly no reason to be out of work around this area. Unless you think certain jobs are beneath you, which is a lot of the problem.

But you don't have any evidence to support your prejudice.

 

[Hornblower]

Benefits claimants ARE scrutinised and monitored. There is an obligation to prove one is seeking work by applying for 10 jobs a day at least which is filled in in a diary and can be checked arbitrarily by a civil servant. They are involved in frequent correspondence with the DWP over ntitlement or not to various elements of JSA and have to sit for an hour every other week at the Jobcentre having aspects of their personal life examined. They can be asked to attend spurious training sessions on computer skills, CV writing etc delivered, often by trainers with far fewer qualifications and experience than the job seeker themselves.

It's mean spirited and harsh to imagine that these guys are sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, it's humiliating and demeaning and, frankly, insulting to hear the Tories describe their fellow citizens in such a way.

I was unemployed following the sudden collapse of my employer and after working since I was 16 with never a claim for anything and after paying close to a million quid in taxes..it lasted six months and I was nearly suicidal by the end of it. The fear for my home and kids, the pitiful benefits I was entitled to and the grinding misery of being talked down to and patronised by the Jobcentre people (well meaning as they were) was one of the lowest periods of my life. I have worked in senior management for years, have had massive work stress and handled major problems at work. NONE of that compares to the stress and sheer terror of being unemployed.

Those of you pointing fingers and imagining that there's millions of layabouts just sponging are just dead wrong. There's some who are...of course, there's probably some wasters in your workplace too, but the majority are decent folk who count as much as you or I. The Tories want to beat up poor people and force them into working for free...it's plain wrong and is a frankly disgusting scheme.

Thank goodness there are a fair few right minded people on here. The demonisation of the unemployed has to stop.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

This needn't vilify those on long term unemployment, the role of any government is to firstly ensure qualification and then try and engineer a pathway to employment.

Just to withdraw any initiative under the premise it might humiliate isnt the answer, a more challenging environment that explores, supports, cajole's and if needed sanctions might offer opportunities that otherwise would never materialise.

The working environment offers the same, why deny this to those that perhaps need it most, or is it an inverted prejudice, can the long term unemployed aspire to a working life.

Doing nothing isnt an option.

So why hasn't Osborne & his simpering toadies managed to construct an economy that effectively creates real paid employment for the unemployed masses? Why has he & his fellow Govt. colleagues cut public sector posts at unprecedented levels & done sweet FA to effectively help in the creation of alternative paid jobs for those who have become mere human economic flotsum? And why the **** hasn't he targeted the corperate tax-dodgers who wave 2 cheery fingers at the Nation's coffers & continue doing so with impunity? So much for 'The Nasty Party' turning over a new leaf & putting the 'Great' back into Britain. Frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of the lying *******s if they were on fire.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Benefits claimants ARE scrutinised and monitored. There is an obligation to prove one is seeking work by applying for 10 jobs a day at least which is filled in in a diary and can be checked arbitrarily by a civil servant. They are involved in frequent correspondence with the DWP over ntitlement or not to various elements of JSA and have to sit for an hour every other week at the Jobcentre having aspects of their personal life examined. They can be asked to attend spurious training sessions on computer skills, CV writing etc delivered, often by trainers with far fewer qualifications and experience than the job seeker themselves.

It's mean spirited and harsh to imagine that these guys are sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, it's humiliating and demeaning and, frankly, insulting to hear the Tories describe their fellow citizens in such a way.

I was unemployed following the sudden collapse of my employer and after working since I was 16 with never a claim for anything and after paying close to a million quid in taxes..it lasted six months and I was nearly suicidal by the end of it. The fear for my home and kids, the pitiful benefits I was entitled to and the grinding misery of being talked down to and patronised by the Jobcentre people (well meaning as they were) was one of the lowest periods of my life. I have worked in senior management for years, have had massive work stress and handled major problems at work. NONE of that compares to the stress and sheer terror of being unemployed.

Those of you pointing fingers and imagining that there's millions of layabouts just sponging are just dead wrong. There's some who are...of course, there's probably some wasters in your workplace too, but the majority are decent folk who count as much as you or I. The Tories want to beat up poor people and force them into working for free...it's plain wrong and is a frankly disgusting scheme.

Bloody well said H.

 

[Guinness Boy]

:

So why hasn't Osborne & his simpering toadies managed to construct an economy that effectively creates real paid employment for the unemployed masses? Why has he & his fellow Govt. colleagues cut public sector posts at unprecedented levels & done sweet FA to effectively help in the creation of alternative paid jobs for those who have become mere human economic flotsum? And why the **** hasn't he targeted the corperate tax-dodgers who wave 2 cheery fingers at the Nation's coffers & continue doing so with impunity? So much for 'The Nasty Party' turning over a new leaf & putting the 'Great' back into Britain. Frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of the lying *******s if they were on fire.

Fantastic rant.

When people talk about getting others off benefits they never mention that higher salaries might incentivise them just as much as cut benefits. That carrot works better than stick. That collecting that dodged corporate tax could fund jobs and real pay rises in the public sector. That doing that would put money in to the economy meaning we are not necessarily borrowing. That the Bank of England would insist that any such scheme was rolled out gradually to minimise the impact on industry and inflation, the latter of which is (rightly) their problem.

Of course this would take some long term thinking from people who are essentially on lucrative 5 year contracts.

 

[kevtherev]

But you don't have any evidence to support your prejudice.

My evidence is what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears. When you walk through any given town on a weekday, surely they can't all be seeking jobs swigging out of their can off Tennants Blue, while rolling a fag and stroking the dog, they get a bit extra for....and this is suppose to be a nice town.....pmsl....I'd go even further, from now on I would restrict all single mothers on benefits to only 1 child. There are a lot of old slappers out there who see laying on their backs and farming out children a lifestyle choice.... Personally I don't care if some girl wants 5 kids from five different blokes but i'm buggered if the tax payer should foot the bill for it.....and yes I am even more grumpy first thing in the morning because i'd rather be laying in my bed, than going off to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guinness Boy]

My evidence is what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears. When you walk through any given town on a weekday, surely they can't all be seeking jobs swigging out of their can off Tennants Blue, while rolling a fag and stroking the dog, they get a bit extra for....and this is suppose to be a nice town.....pmsl....I'd go even further, from now on I would restrict all single mothers on benefits to only 1 child. There are a lot of old slappers out there who see laying on their backs and farming out children a lifestyle choice.... Personally I don't care if some girl wants 5 kids from five different blokes but i'm buggered if the tax payer should foot the bill for it.....and yes I am even more grumpy first thing in the morning because i'd rather be laying in my bed, than going off to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

So basically forced sterilization / abortion unless you're married. That tash in your avatar needs to be a little more toothbrushy.

 

[mikeyjh]

Well the system has always seemed to work well in Spain. The unemployed [and there's plenty of them], earn their benefit by registering with the town hall [in small villages] of social security office in towns, each week. If they cannot/do not find work within 6 months they have to 'earn' any further benefits by working for either the town hall or the 'junta' [equivalent would be Brighton & Hove council & or East Sussex CC. Private employment work for an established company is not allowed for the obvious reason. These men & women wear the same council workers overalls & partake in cleaning, graffiti removal, park maintenance, road & path repairs etc. If they are not prepared to do that they have the option on attending an approved 'junta' retraining course. Refuse this and it's goodbye.

Another good thing here is if a person is made redundant & they themselves have a scheme to start self employment it can be put to the authorities for consideration. if agreed all the unemployment money due for the 6 months before compulsory work, may be paid as a start up amount. Secondly self employment stamp is minimized for 2 years, i.e starts at 50 euros a month instead of the normal rate of 250 euros.

Yep, agreed, works perfectly. If you're targeting a 27% unemployment rate. If you're looking for a European nation to with an economy to follow, there are few worse options than Spain.....

 

[hybrid_x]

so funny - the mail and sun reading types on NSC "scroungers, make them work" atitude. £1.20 an hour for 40 hours? that my friends, is facist nazi slavery.

most of this subject is summed up here....

 

[trueblue]

For me, the bottom line is that if you want people to look after old ladies, clean up graffiti, clean the streets etc then create more jobs for that and pay a living wage. That's what gets people back into work. Not depressing the long term unemployed even more by forcing then into dead end activities for f*** all and proving there really is no chance of a job with prospects. The only people gaining out of this will be those private companies who already treat their staff like crap. They'll be rubbing their hands at the prospect of even cheaper labour and properly paid jobs will disappear as a consequences.

It's sadly clear that the Tories have never changed. Populist policies pandering to myths they create. They serve the interests of those that don't need more money while being unwittingly supported en masse by many of those who long term stand to suffer most but are too dim to see the bigger picture.

 

[BigGully]

So why hasn't Osborne & his simpering toadies managed to construct an economy that effectively creates real paid employment for the unemployed masses? Why has he & his fellow Govt. colleagues cut public sector posts at unprecedented levels & done sweet FA to effectively help in the creation of alternative paid jobs for those who have become mere human economic flotsum? And why the **** hasn't he targeted the corperate tax-dodgers who wave 2 cheery fingers at the Nation's coffers & continue doing so with impunity? So much for 'The Nasty Party' turning over a new leaf & putting the 'Great' back into Britain. Frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of the lying *******s if they were on fire.

I am not aligned to any party I view them all with skepticism, but the old cliches from the left are discredited and a throw back to the bitter socialism that has since been dropped even by Labour, its all just a little predictable.

Offer a view on a minimum wage fine, give your argument to why the public sector should be kept untouched and of course ensure that the big corporations pay their fair share, beyond the usual socialist rant, most would accept some discussion on all of these are relevant but why shouldn't those those on long term unemployment endure a level of scrutiny that everyone else has to, if they need to arrive at a place at a certain time on a certain day to receive their money, frigging well do it, we have to.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Benefits claimants ARE scrutinised and monitored. There is an obligation to prove one is seeking work by applying for 10 jobs a day at least which is filled in in a diary and can be checked arbitrarily by a civil servant. They are involved in frequent correspondence with the DWP over ntitlement or not to various elements of JSA and have to sit for an hour every other week at the Jobcentre having aspects of their personal life examined. They can be asked to attend spurious training sessions on computer skills, CV writing etc delivered, often by trainers with far fewer qualifications and experience than the job seeker themselves.

It's mean spirited and harsh to imagine that these guys are sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, it's humiliating and demeaning and, frankly, insulting to hear the Tories describe their fellow citizens in such a way.

I was unemployed following the sudden collapse of my employer and after working since I was 16 with never a claim for anything and after paying close to a million quid in taxes..it lasted six months and I was nearly suicidal by the end of it. The fear for my home and kids, the pitiful benefits I was entitled to and the grinding misery of being talked down to and patronised by the Jobcentre people (well meaning as they were) was one of the lowest periods of my life. I have worked in senior management for years, have had massive work stress and handled major problems at work. NONE of that compares to the stress and sheer terror of being unemployed.

Those of you pointing fingers and imagining that there's millions of layabouts just sponging are just dead wrong. There's some who are...of course, there's probably some wasters in your workplace too, but the majority are decent folk who count as much as you or I. The Tories want to beat up poor people and force them into working for free...it's plain wrong and is a frankly disgusting scheme.

Great post, I agree wholeheartedly.