Monkster
Ragamuffin
But they aren't covered by legislation which means if they CHOOSE to lift the self imposed ban, they can.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a smoker trying to give up & I think it's a good idea.....
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Smoking ban - something I didn't consider!
- Thread starter Mrs Coach
- Start date
But they aren't covered by legislation which means if they CHOOSE to lift the self imposed ban, they can.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a smoker trying to give up & I think it's a good idea.....
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
But market forces would not give sufficient demand for non-smoking pubs... the vast majority of workers would not have the choice of whether to work in a smoking or non-smoking pub, they would just have to work in a smoking pub, whether they liked it or not.
Admittedly a small town but it was certainly working here in Shoreham before the ban - with smoking and non smoking pubs...
Cian
Well-known member
Theres enough of them - one would be enough - for you not to be respecting their now legal rights by trying to get a choice for you, not them.
But giving one their way over the other isn't respecting both sides?
Cian
Well-known member
Still not enough for the, erm, 83% I think the figure was? of pub/club staff that don't smoke to work in a non-smoking pub/club. Also, suggesting that people move jobs to a hypothetical non-smoking bar, if there was no ban, is identical to - and this is being ignored here - suggesting someone changes jobs because of homophobia, racism or sexism - which is something no right minded person would suggest.
Cian
Well-known member
No. What you're advocating causes physical harm to people. Being made go outside to smoke doesn't.
Additionally, they work there, its very very rare for a drinker to spend more time in a pub than the staff! Although there was one boyo who was usually there when I was setting up and was still there when I was leaving after my set...
But homophobia, racism or sexism is illegal no matter where - smoking in itself isn't...
Going round in circles now - so I'll have to agree to disagree and move on...
Yoda
English & European
Jobseeker goes in for fortnightly review after being told about vacancy at pub.
Advisor: How did you get on at your interview?
Jobseeker: I got all right and was even offered the job but turned it down as I’m a non-smoker and the pub allows it.
Advisor: That was a reasonably good job, for filling you agreement made with us. I’m afraid we’re going to have to look at sanctioning your benefit because of that.
Yoda
English & European
And having just finished trawling through this tread having not come on here all weekend and here’s some more points I’d like to throw in.
1. You can’t have smoking & non-smoking pubs. The ban is on ALL Workplaces. The pub is a workplace therefore if it can be allowed there it will just open the floodgates for everywhere else. It’s also got a lot to do with equal opportunities.
2. Some smokers are comparing it to drinking. What do YOU go to the pub for, a fag or a drink? Answer: a drink. You don’t go there just for a quick smoke do you. You go there for a quick drink.
3. Staying on the drinking side, the government need to hit the supermarkets that sell alcohol on the cheap (at about half the price) NOT the pub. A lot of liver damage isn’t done by the one or two nights down the town bingeing but by the 2/3/4 drinks people will have PER night at home. Hit it where it’s cheapest to do it.
4. The Cyclists points. No doubt that wearing a helmet will become a legal requirement. All new bikes come with a bell now as standard.
5. Yorkie. 16 years since quitting. Good work there, but at that length of time, your body starts get healthier again and will continue to do so. Of course you won’t be having any problems.
6. Does anybody know if residents in a care home or prisoners aren’t allowed to smoke anywhere in the premises? Are they only allowed to smoke in their room/cell and other designated smoking areas?
1. You can’t have smoking & non-smoking pubs. The ban is on ALL Workplaces. The pub is a workplace therefore if it can be allowed there it will just open the floodgates for everywhere else. It’s also got a lot to do with equal opportunities.
2. Some smokers are comparing it to drinking. What do YOU go to the pub for, a fag or a drink? Answer: a drink. You don’t go there just for a quick smoke do you. You go there for a quick drink.
3. Staying on the drinking side, the government need to hit the supermarkets that sell alcohol on the cheap (at about half the price) NOT the pub. A lot of liver damage isn’t done by the one or two nights down the town bingeing but by the 2/3/4 drinks people will have PER night at home. Hit it where it’s cheapest to do it.
4. The Cyclists points. No doubt that wearing a helmet will become a legal requirement. All new bikes come with a bell now as standard.
5. Yorkie. 16 years since quitting. Good work there, but at that length of time, your body starts get healthier again and will continue to do so. Of course you won’t be having any problems.
6. Does anybody know if residents in a care home or prisoners aren’t allowed to smoke anywhere in the premises? Are they only allowed to smoke in their room/cell and other designated smoking areas?
Big assumption Yoda. I never did (which was part of my point earlier) despite growing up in a household with several adult smokers, living with a smoker (my ex husband) and smoking myself for 26 years. I've never had bronchitus, asthma or any lung problems at all.
I guess I have been lucky?
Cian
Well-known member
Believe me, they're -not- illegal everywhere, and by that I don't mean worldwide. Theres numerous examples of how hard it is to get a conviction for discrimination or hate crimes based on gender and sexual orientation, usually because they're less clear-cut than racism. But theres one place they're completely unacceptable and 100% illegal, which is the workplace - same as smoking.
All fair points - but I wasn't talking about any of those - MYOB in his diatribes never realized that either - all I was trying to debate about was being allowed the right to choose, without having to be lectured at about it being a workplace ban - of which I'm completely aware....but then again if we're all completely selfish we'd never realize we'd lost it in the first place...
Cian
Well-known member
And in all your responses, you never realised that your "right to choose" is completely outweighed by others rights to equality, and not be killed. But thats just the standard selfish smoker attitude - even if you don't smoke! You don't have a right to endanger other peoples lives, full stop.
Did anyone read about the pub which tried to escape the ban by becoming an embassy for some foreign land. They failed BTW, because the island in question was part of a larger country which already had a British Embassy.
Why can't the Pub Landlord, if they so choose, re-designate their public bar area as their own living area. i.e. no longer a place of work.
Clearly they could not serve alchohol there because someone would find some petty rule about tax or duty evasion... but there could be an off licence in another room.
So you buy your alchohol in the other room, perhaps where non-smokers are allowed to drink their purchases, and then retire to the landlords private living room, by invitation, to enjoy your pint with a cigar.
Can anyone see any issues with this?
Why can't the Pub Landlord, if they so choose, re-designate their public bar area as their own living area. i.e. no longer a place of work.
Clearly they could not serve alchohol there because someone would find some petty rule about tax or duty evasion... but there could be an off licence in another room.
So you buy your alchohol in the other room, perhaps where non-smokers are allowed to drink their purchases, and then retire to the landlords private living room, by invitation, to enjoy your pint with a cigar.
Can anyone see any issues with this?
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
A couple of points. To say that you are killing people is a major overreaction, if anyone can produce evidence that non-smokers who worked in pubs have been killed directly by cigarette smoke i'd like to see it.
Re the issuse about being able to choose where you work. People are say that the economics would not allow a sufficient number of non-smoking pubs for non smokers to work in, as the majority would still be smoking pubs. To that I'd say that a) there are plenty of other non skilled jobs out there, you don't have to work in a pub. And b) does the fact that most pubs would choose to be smoking not indicate that most people who actually drink in or run pubs are not in favour of the ban. You can present statistics all you like but I bet the majority of the people asked don't even use the pub regularly.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Missed this one in my last post. Where is the equality for people who want to smoke inside a pub? By banning it in all pubs rather that giving a choice surely any equality is being taken away.
Hatterlovesbrighton
something clever
Possible. The landlord or a member of staff wouldn't be able to enter that room to collect the glasses as that would be considered "working".
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
There is a very substantial evidence base that smoking (and second-hand smoke) causes lung damage. Does it make a difference if it is only damaging someone and not killing them? Not in my eyes.
Someone I think mentioned earlier in this thread the logic behind pubs wanting people to be able to smoke; that if you are in a large party, and one person smokes, the entire party is going to want to go somewhere that allows smoking. It is about excluding the smallest number of potential customers from your premises.
The fact that this ban has now been introduced shows that there is finally the political will behind it to bring it in. This suggests that there are enough people for the ban for it to make it worthwhile for MPs to support it.
The ban should not (and is not) about presenting a choice to publicans or customers. It is about preventing people from being exposed to health risks in the workplace. You can argue about choice all you want, but the smoking ban is in place to protect workers, all workers, and is here to stay.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,877
Already banned - a few MPs are in trouble for smoking in the bogs apparently.