[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Cotton Socks]

Can I ask what you guys think the new Labour government will actually do? rather than vague 'repair 13 years of damage' nonsense, what will they spend, how will they raise it (what will they stop spending or who/what will they tax more to pay for it) and what will the impact be? I have been scouting around, reading about the Five Missions etc... and unsurprisingly it is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. I would be really interested to know what will be significantly different (other than it's not being done by the Tories) and by how much?

I'd just like a government that stops f**king everything up & doesn't make it more shit for most of us than it already is!!!! I know someone whose mortgages have gone from £200 a month to over £1k since the Truss shambles & as I don't feel very sorry for him per se as he's done f**k all to earn that money or have those properties (inheritance) another friend of mine is going to be made homeless as the flats will be sold. If it had been a couple of years later the mortgage would've been paid & he wouldn't be kicked out (I can't blame my friend who owns the flat either tbf. as he's rented it at at vastly reduced rate).
My rented accommodation is less than market rates but I've lived here for years & I've managed to negotiate the rent increase (that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Truss) to something that's 'sort of' affordable. My consistent payment of rent on time, in full every month & the fact that I deal (& pay for) all the minor things that go wrong here & try to save the owner money on things I'm not prepared to pay for, to the point that I've wasted my time & someones on here to save them money when they're being ripped off (they didn't listen and got ripped of) makes the owner reluctant to charge full market price & have to deal with god knows what if I can't afford it & move out. Their new house has been purchased by remortgaging the one I live in during lockdown. Better the devil you know & all that.
Not very many years ago, but has seemed to have been forgotten about was a 'Save our Schools' campaign due to how much the schools budgets have been cut, the budgets still haven't risen in real terms & I don't think the government are even bothering to say that they've given an 'increase' in spending as everyone knows its b''locks. There are no Sure Start centres anymore & midwife appointments before and after birth are bare minimum as there aren't even enough midwives in the hospitals to help with an actual birth, so I'd expect them to work out how to prevent a further decline in that.
In my view at this precise moment, it's not about improvement it's about someone coming in and putting the brakes on to stop it getting worse. I don't expect miracles & a flourishing economy in a couple of years time and foodbanks to be diminished over night.
I don't want a government that thinks it's fine to ditch the ECHR because they don't like the part that stops them doing what they want to. Does anyone have a clue what a UK HR act is going to be? All I can see is rights being diminished, the right to protest is the 1st one that springs to mind. I can't even say that law was brought in due to a 'moral panic' as no-one cared/cares about protests as long as they don't end up in a breakdown of society and if that happened then there surely should be important questions as to why it's happened rather than how we can stop protests.
The Criminal Justice Bill that came in to stop raves with the outlawing of something stupid like repetitive beats being played in public was bloody stupid & I had to explain this to Jnr the other day, that in theory if we have an NYE party with more than 20 people present & played repetitive beat that it could lead to me being arrested sounded ridiculous (I'm not having an NYE party, he's just interested in the history of the rave scene). It sounded even more ridiculous when he asked me what was considered a repetitive beat. Can you get away with playing The Beatles on the 1st track and then The Prodigy on the next, which beat is repetitive when they are so different? That law was bought in due to a moral panic though with the people (and the tabloids) being afraid of a load of twatted ravers. No such moral panic happened with protests as far as I'm aware so why has the protest law come about?
I just want some sanity & not a bunch of narcissistic gaslighting knobs running the country. If its a Labour government next they may well be a bunch or narcissistic gaslighting knobs but it would be nice to find out, rather than continue down this path steered by a bunch or narcissistic gaslighting knobs!
Sorry, that was long and I haven't actually answered your question!

 

[Bodian]

That law was bought in due to a moral panic though with the people (and the tabloids) being afraid of a load of twatted ravers. No such moral panic happened with protests as far as I'm aware so why has the protest law come about?

Because there have been protests about the things the Government want to do. We can't have that........

 

[Cotton Socks]

I may be wrong here when it comes to the railways (@jackalbion I don't want input into this thread but is this the way it works?) but I think that each 'company' rents the line from Network Rail which is owned by 'us'. Every company only has the contract on a certain piece of the line for a certain amount of time, hence you have Thameslink and Southern both operating trains to Victoria but you're not supposed to use certain trains if you haven't read the small print on your one day travelcard to Victoria from Brighton and get on the Gatwick Express as you'll be fined.
None of the train companies like Southern or Thameslink own the 'actual' trains, they rent them from somewhere else, We pay a subsidy to the train companies to run a 'service'. Renationalising the railways makes it sound very complicated, it isn't. Just don't renew the train companies contract to run the 'service', rent the trains ourselves & pay Network Rail (which we own) to maintain the tracks and infrastructure. That sounds very simple but I don't know how long the companies contracts last for although I'm pretty sure the government took over one line to 'help out the company' so it can't be that difficult o do even if their contract hasn't ended.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would never claim to support any party or declare myself out and proud as a vocal Tory. I've always had more of an affinity towards the Tories as I'm sure others do to Labour. I don't denigrate or disapprove of other voter's views and the comments I made are observations rather than accusations. I'm just a voter, not passionate about Conservatism, Conservative politicians or politics at all. I read all the papers online for different views at times and I'm probably as much of a swing voter as you'll find. It's up to Keir and his mates to make their case. If they offer a better alternative they can have my vote.

hmmmm. This extremely contradicts some of your earlier posts. Did you forget to switch accounts?

 

[Bodian]

I may be wrong here when it comes to the railways (@jackalbion I don't want input into this thread but is this the way it works?) but I think that each 'company' rents the line from Network Rail which is owned by 'us'. Every company only has the contract on a certain piece of the line for a certain amount of time, hence you have Thameslink and Southern both operating trains to Victoria but you're not supposed to use certain trains if you haven't read the small print on your one day travelcard to Victoria from Brighton and get on the Gatwick Express as you'll be fined.
None of the train companies like Southern or Thameslink own the 'actual' trains, they rent them from somewhere else, We pay a subsidy to the train companies to run a 'service'. Renationalising the railways makes it sound very complicated, it isn't. Just don't renew the train companies contract to run the 'service', rent the trains ourselves & pay Network Rail (which we own) to maintain the tracks and infrastructure. That sounds very simple but I don't know how long the companies contracts last for although I'm pretty sure the government took over one line to 'help out the company' so it can't be that difficult o do even if their contract hasn't ended.

Near enough!

If 'we' didn't renew the train companies contract, and then didn't renew the train owners' franchises - it would all be 'owned' by us. Then 'we' would simply run the whole lot in an integrated fashion.

No more fines for catching the wrong companies' trains. No more arguing between 3-4 different organisations as to whose fault a delay was (at great expense, with lawyers and so on), or whom is responsible for what. No more intermediary staff spending their time trying to screw money (or whatever) out of the other organisations involved - instead the same amount of money could be spent on staff who could actually deliver the service (rather than just arguing about it). More flexibility with timetabling. More accountability. And some forward planning instead of short-termism driven by the length of the contract.

And so on, and so on.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Because there have been protests about the things the Government want to do. We can't have that........

That is the most worrying thing, even Maggie did a u-turn on the poll tax after the protests (ok, perhaps slightly more than a protest)!

 

[Cotton Socks]

Near enough!

If 'we' didn't renew the train companies contract, and then didn't renew the train owners' franchises - it would all be 'owned' by us. Then 'we' would simply run the whole lot in an integrated fashion.

No more fines for catching the wrong companies' trains. No more arguing between 3-4 different organisations as to whose fault a delay was (at great expense, with lawyers and so on), or whom is responsible for what. No more intermediary staff spending their time trying to screw money (or whatever) out of the other organisations involved - instead the same amount of money could be spent on staff who could actually deliver the service (rather than just arguing about it). More flexibility with timetabling. More accountability. And some forward planning instead of short-termism driven by the length of the contract.

And so on, and so on.

So basically it's not going to cost billions to re-nationalise the railways as the train companies pay shit loads in dividends to their share holders via the cost of our tickets after the rolling stock and line rental is taken into consideration? Just don't renew their contracts.
Edit to add, do you know which train company has the longest contract and how long left to run?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

hmmmm. This extremely contradicts some of your earlier posts. Did you forget to switch accounts?

Not at all. Some posters have formed a rather inaccurate view of me on several occasions. Perhaps these have drawn you to their conclusions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Which bit of I think that's an 'excellent post' don't you get?

We understand the term “excellent post”. It’s the reason we don’t understand because @Super Steve Earle extremely contradicts himself with previous posts. How have you personally reconciled that?

 

[jcdenton08]

Not at all. Some posters have formed a rather inaccurate view of me on several occasions. Perhaps these have drawn you to their conclusions.

This happens mate.

What I must say though is @Bozza is doing a brilliant job. We have moderators of all political persuasions (intentionally) which shows how this community should be by design. A free and open place for Albion fans to congregate and chat.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not at all. Some posters have formed a rather inaccurate view of me on several occasions. Perhaps these have drawn you to their conclusions.

So you're very much a swing voter who has only ever voted one way

Never had a good reason to change or consider change till now and Labour has never resonated with me, my life, my work etc. Nor have Labour politicians.

I read all the papers online for different views at times and I'm probably as much of a swing voter as you'll find.

I don't think anyone has any taken any issue with your political view at all, it's the fact that you change it by the hour and claim different things in different posts that people are struggling with, so which is an accurate view of you

 

[armchairclubber]

I would never claim to support any party or declare myself out and proud as a vocal Tory. I've always had more of an affinity towards the Tories as I'm sure others do to Labour. I don't denigrate or disapprove of other voter's views and the comments I made are observations rather than accusations. I'm just a voter, not passionate about Conservatism, Conservative politicians or politics at all. I read all the papers online for different views at times and I'm probably as much of a swing voter as you'll find. It's up to Keir and his mates to make their case. If they offer a better alternative they can have my vote.

I think you do. Just a Tory with very strange views on foodbanks

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I think you do. Just a Tory with very strange views on foodbanks

Lucky I don't give a sh1t what you think. Nor does the children's charity where I work at Christmas. Nor did the foodbank I supported.

 

[armchairclubber]

Lucky I don't give a sh1t what you think. Nor does the children's charity where I work at Christmas. Nor did the foodbank I supported.

Quite. I wonder if the Tories can make a strong push and increase the food banks up to 5000 before the next election. Bit more campaigning and photo opportunities they could even be serious candidates.

 

[BLOCK F]

Good to see nastiness, snide remarks and general grumpiness are all fit and healthy on NSC as the year draws to a close.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I may be wrong here when it comes to the railways (@jackalbion I don't want input into this thread but is this the way it works?) but I think that each 'company' rents the line from Network Rail which is owned by 'us'. Every company only has the contract on a certain piece of the line for a certain amount of time, hence you have Thameslink and Southern both operating trains to Victoria but you're not supposed to use certain trains if you haven't read the small print on your one day travelcard to Victoria from Brighton and get on the Gatwick Express as you'll be fined.
None of the train companies like Southern or Thameslink own the 'actual' trains, they rent them from somewhere else, We pay a subsidy to the train companies to run a 'service'. Renationalising the railways makes it sound very complicated, it isn't. Just don't renew the train companies contract to run the 'service', rent the trains ourselves & pay Network Rail (which we own) to maintain the tracks and infrastructure. That sounds very simple but I don't know how long the companies contracts last for although I'm pretty sure the government took over one line to 'help out the company' so it can't be that difficult o do even if their contract hasn't ended.

All the derails (sic) here:

Passenger rail franchising in Great Britain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Good to see nastiness, snide remarks and general grumpiness is fit and healthy on NSC as the year draws to a close.

Yes, that's a pity. No need for it. As I (a labour member) have said repeatedly having a right of centre outlook is logical and defensible.

It is important to not conflate support for conservative ideals with support for the current tory party leadership (and beat people up for no reason). I have not seen anyone post on NSC in support of the current conservative party leadership (noting I have two incorrigible shills on ignore). All other right of centre posters seem saddened by the current government, even if they are not yet driven into the arms of labour owing to a lifetime of antipathy. I was in the equivalent boat when the Corbyn gang took over labour.

If there is any additional nuance, despite my disgust with the 'Oh, Jeremy Corbyn' movement, I was not driven into the arms of the tories, albeit they had a certain Johnson in charge which made it impossible. Flip it around, and if I were a disillusioned tory, I would not find any reason to not give Starmer a go. My left wing brother hates him, and I can think of no better an endorsement

 

[BLOCK F]

We shouldn't forget that the tories were playing fast and loose with BR from when Thatcher made it clear she though we should all be using cars. Regional improvements seemed to be planned simply to leverage votes. This resulted in regional variations in service. Barely a thought about national infrastructure.

I would suggest they have been doing the same with the health service. Different regions rationing differently, with political capital to be had. Didn't Johnson promise 40 new hospitals? What happened to all that I wonder?

There is a strong anti public ownership, anti public service imperative among the right of the tory party (not all of the party it should be stated, there is still some one nation instincts among the quieter element, albeit they have been sitting on their hands during the rise of the lunatics).

This has to stop. The idea that everything can be flogged off for easy short term wins (votes) should be precluded by some new laws. National interest laws. Bribing elements of the nation with their own (taxpayers') money is grotesque. I expect Labour to continue, sadly, but with a different flavour. But....even if they say they want to spend tax payers' money to boost deprived areas, and rightly so, this will simply entrench the tory vote in the leafy shires, outraged that their taxes are being used to 'subsidize single parent scousers', etc.

Politics is toxic at the moment. It will take years for the swamp to be drained. And the tories in opposition will, I predict, be the most disgusting opposition in living memory.

They will be rabid attack dogs 24/7, marching up and down with a Culture War banner, inspecting every penny of tax payers' money that labour waste on do-goodery, standing up for honest British folk who are trying to do their best for their family, while family values are under constant attack from the loony left. Brace yourself.

There may be a few rabid attack dogs remaining after the election, but eventually common sense and pragmatism will take over as it has to, and does, in both main parties if they want to get into power. Labour’s looney rabid types are rather keen on tearing chunks out of their own side and there may well be some of this on the Tory side, but as I have said, it will settle down and eventually the Tories will come to their senses and re-emerge as a right of centre party. In the meantime, it will be up to Sir Keir and his troops to do their best for the country and prove themselves a worthy Government.
I hope they succeed and I don’t think the sensible majority of people in the country will be impressed by a few rabid dogs/dinosaurs? baring their rotten teeth in pointless attacks on what will hopefully be sensible and pragmatic decisions made by the new Government.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Good to see nastiness, snide remarks and general grumpiness are all fit and healthy on NSC as the year draws to a close.

Quite. You may be referring to me too, but I think this thread is best left to Labour supporters only without further comment.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, that's a pity. No need for it. As I (a labour member) have said repeatedly having a right of centre outlook is logical and defensible.

It is important to not conflate support for conservative ideals with support for the current tory party leadership (and beat people up for no reason). I have not seen anyone post on NSC in support of the current conservative party leadership (noting I have two incorrigible shills on ignore). All other right of centre posters seem saddened by the current government, even if they are not yet driven into the arms of labour owing to a lifetime of antipathy. I was in the equivalent boat when the Corbyn gang took over labour.

If there is any additional nuance, despite my disgust with the 'Oh, Jeremy Corbyn' movement, I was not driven into the arms of the tories, albeit they had a certain Johnson in charge which made it impossible. Flip it around and were I a disillusioned tory I would not find any reason to not give Starmer a go. My left wing brother hates him, and I can think of no better an endorsement

Well Starmer has certainly moved the Labour party way to the right from where it was under Corbyn (hence the debate amongst traditional Labour supporters as to whether he is now centre or even centre right) but certainly in the same centre ground as the Party was under Blair.

As a consequence of this, and the Conservative party moving far right over the last few years, there are now a significant number of centre/centre right NSC posters who have stated that they will be backing Starmer next election, even some with a long history of supporting the Conservatives.

However, there a still a number of self proclaimed 'centrists' that state with regularity that Starmer still has some way to go to prove worthy of their vote or that they will still support the current Conservative party.

I think there may be a few different definitions of the words centre and centrists

Quite. You may be referring to me too, but I think this thread is best left to Labour supporters only without further comment.

It's certainly not a thread for centrists is it