[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[WATFORD zero]

An electoral dilemma:
The only possible chance of putting our Tory incumbent is if enough conservative voters defect to the LDs. I would prefer to vote Labour at the moment but this would be a wasted vote. But I’ve just had a LD election flyer through the door and it is a load of patronising, meaningless drivel seemingly written for primary school children (which is an insult to primary school children).
I believe a Labour gov will be the best for the country but how can you vote for one bunch of idiots when the objective is to get another bunch of idiots out?

It's a problem with the FPTP electoral system we use, where you know that if you vote for who you actually want it's probably a vote 'wasted'.

At the end of the day you have to decide whether you want to vote for the 'least worst' of the likely winners or the one you actually want to vote for. It's a decision that only you can make.

You may well get various stupid/sacrcastic/ironic answers from people who don't understand this, but it's best to ignore them. A certain poster on here tells me there is even a special NSC option for this very purpose

 

[Bodian]

Vote for something you don't want, the whole reason democracy works.

View attachment 171990

Depends on 'what you want'. I want this bunch out - so will vote however best to achieve that in my area. Might not be my 'first choice' - but the main 'want' now is to change.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Well you’re in the right place, there are a many apparent experts on this board who will get great pleasure in telling you how you should vote

and there are a load of idiots on here as well, which I also happen to class myself

 

[Rdodge30]

There is a regional poll in the Times today which asks who will be best PM ….. massive amounts of undecideds. I don’t know what the percentage vote for tories was at the last election but I’d be surprised if it’s the same as the undecideds plus tories in this poll. Who else is undecided?

 

[Hugo Rune]

There is a regional poll in the Times today which asks who will be best PM ….. massive amounts of undecideds. I don’t know what the percentage vote for tories was at the last election but I’d be surprised if it’s the same as the undecideds plus tories in this poll. Who else is undecided? View attachment 172030

No Scottish or Northern Irish figures? I don’t suppose The Times give two hoots what people from those countries think but they’ve had a massive affect in the last two elections.

The SNP have been riding very high making it impossible for Labour to get the numbers whilst the DUP bent over for the Tories with May but instead of getting something nice, they got a knife in the back delivered by Johnson.

I think Scotchland is the most interesting. The ‘vote SNP - get Tory’ campaign should work exceptionally well next time with the SNP is the sewer through bad performance, infighting and potential corruption.

If Labour turn the Scotch Red and rebuild the Red wall, the Tories will be well and truly plundered. A last minute drop of a pledge to introduce a preferential voting system by Labour could see the Tories out of Government for decades. Absolutely joyous.

 

[armchairclubber]

and there are a load of idiots on here as well, which I also happen to class myself

In that case, you've probably got a better chance of making the right decision

 

[rogersix]

Quite. You may be referring to me too, but I think this thread is best left to Labour supporters only without further comment.

also lib-dem voters,......... and indeed, all right-minded people

 

[rogersix]

Sad state when it's 'Get the incumbents (of any persuasion) out, get anyone in, whatever their policies (if they even have any).

Excellent.

well that's how bad the tories are, corrupt and incompetent; big boy trouser time, how could they be worse?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There may be a few rabid attack dogs remaining after the election, but eventually common sense and pragmatism will take over as it has to, and does, in both main parties if they want to get into power. Labour’s looney rabid types are rather keen on tearing chunks out of their own side and there may well be some of this on the Tory side, but as I have said, it will settle down and eventually the Tories will come to their senses and re-emerge as a right of centre party. In the meantime, it will be up to Sir Keir and his troops to do their best for the country and prove themselves a worthy Government.
I hope they succeed and I don’t think the sensible majority of people in the country will be impressed by a few rabid dogs/dinosaurs? baring their rotten teeth in pointless attacks on what will hopefully be sensible and pragmatic decisions made by the new Government.

I hope you prove to be right.

There is always a problem in our politics in that one party can struggle to look identifiably different from the other lot, and can end up singing strange songs to its own core support rather than seeking workable solutions and achievable objectives. Ironically 'call me' Dave started out trying to be like Blair, but was knocked off his perch by the Brexit referendum gamble. That, and Labour losing its mind and making Corbyn leader, seems to have paved the way for the current malaise. What MacMillan called "Events, dear boy, events".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sad state when it's 'Get the incumbents (of any persuasion) out, get anyone in, whatever their policies (if they even have any).

Excellent.

That’s FPTP for you.

 

[ROSM]

Sad state when it's 'Get the incumbents (of any persuasion) out, get anyone in, whatever their policies (if they even have any).

Excellent.

Of course they have policies. But you wont get a manifesto until election time. The way the govt are bleeding out money nobody can be certain what will be left. You do know that convention is the govt allow civil servants to meet opposition parties in the lead up to an election? Usually 16mths beforehand? You do also know that the govt have refused 2 formal request from labour for those meetings? Labour can force these meetings from jan (and will)

As it stands the labour policies are in 7 main areas which a simple google could have found

Health - immediate 1.1bn investment to clear backlog and waiting lists inc overtime and weekend working

Housing 1.5m new homes over a govt term

Increase and speed up infrastructure projects to avoid a hs2 repeat

Non dom tax changes and amending charitable status of fee paying schools

Increase economic investment from 10% of output to 11% and prioritise 5g, new tech inc battery plants

Asses govt spending, inc private jets and recover proceeeds of covid fraud

Utilities - set up gb energy to reassess how uk is prepped and ready for now and the future. Rail and water industry overhaul too

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sad state when it's 'Get the incumbents (of any persuasion) out, get anyone in, whatever their policies (if they even have any).

Excellent.

You keep dwelling on Labour’s lack of policy; WAIT UNTIL THE MANIFESTO IS RELEASED! I understand it’s not far away now.

The way you’re carrying on anyone would think you’re creating a straw man to avoid having to discuss your Tory party and their very real policies.

 

[chickens]

I want a nationalised, one entity rail operation. But it will still cost the taxpayer £10b’s a year and there won’t be a reduction in ticket prices. The reason, the cash paid out in dividends is minuscule relative to rail fare income and subsidies.

Absolutely, it’s still worth doing however, and if we’re serious about getting people out of private vehicles then ticket prices should (if not fall) then at least remain frozen while the cost of private vehicle ownership increases.

Similarly, if you can’t or won’t build new roads, then schemes like Work From Home will also maintain the usability of our existing infrastructure at peak times. It’s all about making sensible joined up decisions, rather than trying to score incoherent ideological points.

We have finite road and rail capacity, the careful management of which will require both careful investment in increasing capacity, and managing demand on overworked bits of infrastructure.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Of course they have policies. But you wont get a manifesto until election time. The way the govt are bleeding out money nobody can be certain what will be left. You do know that convention is the govt allow civil servants to meet opposition parties in the lead up to an election? Usually 16mths beforehand? You do also know that the govt have refused 2 formal request from labour for those meetings? Labour can force these meetings from jan (and will)

As it stands the labour policies are in 7 main areas which a simple google could have found

Health - immediate 1.1bn investment to clear backlog and waiting lists inc overtime and weekend working

Housing 1.5m new homes over a govt term

Increase and speed up infrastructure projects to avoid a hs2 repeat

Non dom tax changes and amending charitable status of fee paying schools

Increase economic investment from 10% of output to 11% and prioritise 5g, new tech inc battery plants

Asses govt spending, inc private jets and recover proceeeds of covid fraud

Utilities - set up gb energy to reassess how uk is prepped and ready for now and the future. Rail and water industry overhaul too

Fair enough. Be interesting to do a school report assessment of these after a few years of Starmer rule. The one that has poked out for me is this housing malarkey, sticking them up where he wants is not going to be as simple as planned.

 

[ROSM]

Psst its a similar policy to your current tory govt (albeit with more elements of infrastructure planning). Where have you criticised that policy?

 

[ROSM]

Fair enough. Be interesting to do a school report assessment of these after a few years of Starmer rule. The one that has poked out for me is this housing malarkey, sticking them up where he wants is not going to be as simple as planned.

Psst its a similar policy to your current tory govt (albeit with more elements of infrastructure planning). Where have you criticised that policy?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Psst its a similar policy to your current tory govt (albeit with more elements of infrastructure planning). Where have you criticised that policy?

I'm not a Tory voter

 

[ROSM]

I'm not a Tory voter

I didnt say you were. They are your govt (and mine) I was just musing if you had criticised this policy of theirs?

 

[rogersix]

Fair enough. Be interesting to do a school report assessment of these after a few years of Starmer rule. The one that has poked out for me is this housing malarkey, sticking them up where he wants is not going to be as simple as planned.

In the interests of balance, could you do a school report on the last 13 years of the Tories?

 

[Titanic]

Of course they have policies. But you wont get a manifesto until election time. The way the govt are bleeding out money nobody can be certain what will be left. You do know that convention is the govt allow civil servants to meet opposition parties in the lead up to an election? Usually 16mths beforehand? You do also know that the govt have refused 2 formal request from labour for those meetings? Labour can force these meetings from jan (and will)

As it stands the labour policies are in 7 main areas which a simple google could have found

Health - immediate 1.1bn investment to clear backlog and waiting lists inc overtime and weekend working

Housing 1.5m new homes over a govt term

Increase and speed up infrastructure projects to avoid a hs2 repeat

Non dom tax changes and amending charitable status of fee paying schools

Increase economic investment from 10% of output to 11% and prioritise 5g, new tech inc battery plants

Asses govt spending, inc private jets and recover proceeeds of covid fraud

Utilities - set up gb energy to reassess how uk is prepped and ready for now and the future. Rail and water industry overhaul too

These are all very laudable - especially the housing one - but doesn't every government say that, and fail? Maybe Sir Keir will be the one to succeed?

The NHS one sounds great... but how will a 0.6% budget increase fix all those problems?

The utilities one is sensible if rather nebulous - perhaps that is the stalking horse for something bold and imaginative?

The non-dom, fee paying schools and covid fraud are largely irrelevant dog whistles - but it makes sense to throw some titbits to the backbenches.

If that is it, it's certainly nothing to be either worried or excited about. Which is disappointing.