[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[borat]

Coogan was spot on on about Starmer.

The guy stands for everything and nothing. He lies easily and frequently. His answers on topics fully depend on the way the political wind is blowing. He will weaponise anything including race and religion for political purposes and will ruthless through under the bus anyone or any group that gets in his way. His morals (as shown in the last few weeks) are determined by his political opportunity.

You can very well argue that he is an excellent politician as the above described strategy and years of Tory incompetence and corruption mean he is much more likely to be elected. He also benefits from significant media support as he wont rock the boat in any significant way.

A thoroughly depressing choice of who leads our country and another reason we desperately need to change the electoral system.

 

[nicko31]

Coogan was spot on on about Starmer.

The guy stands for everything and nothing. He lies easily and frequently. His answers on topics fully depend on the way the political wind is blowing. He will weaponise anything including race and religion for political purposes and will ruthless through under the bus anyone or any group that gets in his way. His morals (as shown in the last few weeks) are determined by his political opportunity.

You can very well argue that he is an excellent politician as the above described strategy and years of Tory incompetence and corruption mean he is much more likely to be elected. He also benefits from significant media support as he wont rock the boat in any significant way.

A thoroughly depressing choice of who leads our country and another reason we desperately need to change the electoral system.

The jury is out on Starmer, right now he’s not in power.

But the only alternative is more of the Tory shitshow. I’ll take my chances when the opportunity comes….

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Coogan was spot on on about Starmer.

The guy stands for everything and nothing. He lies easily and frequently. His answers on topics fully depend on the way the political wind is blowing. He will weaponise anything including race and religion for political purposes and will ruthless through under the bus anyone or any group that gets in his way. His morals (as shown in the last few weeks) are determined by his political opportunity.

You can very well argue that he is an excellent politician as the above described strategy and years of Tory incompetence and corruption mean he is much more likely to be elected. He also benefits from significant media support as he wont rock the boat in any significant way.

A thoroughly depressing choice of who leads our country and another reason we desperately need to change the electoral system.

This is the first time since I've been old enough to vote that im not sure I can be bothered.

 

[The Clamp]

This is the first time since I've been old enough to vote that im not sure I can be bothered.

Can I use your vote then, please? Seriously.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Can I use your vote then, please? Seriously.

Good old democracy at work.

 

[The Clamp]

Good old democracy at work.

By any means necessary, get the criminal, Tory scum out.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Good old democracy at work.

Don't worry, you'll still get the chance to use yours, just the same as last time

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is the first time since I've been old enough to vote that im not sure I can be bothered.

Fair enough, if you can't be bothered to get rid of this lot, don't vote and get more of the same

Although I can't help but wonder if you would be as disappointed as some others

 

[loz]

Why is Starmer getting stick about the Gaza situation as his party is in opposition, I don’t really get it. But I actually believe his stance is more popular than the rabid left think.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Yup. Wealth entrenches wealth (Piketty has a very simple formula here which is, under capitalism and without proper regulation/taxation regimes, r > g, ie the rate of return on capital is greater than growth, which is another way of saying that labour suffers while assets accumulate. Broadly, between 1920s and 1980 in many western countries, g > r. Not only were growth rates high, but socioeconomic mobility was high too (it isn't when r > g). People will find their way around systems to avoid tax. That's fine. HMRC, etc need to be on top of things. The first way around this is to boost their numbers and give them teeth.
The money accrued should be spent on energy transition, NHS, social care and education for me. As much as I'm against private education, I take your point about the profile and reasons of those that are using it. My response is that the state should substantially improve provision for SEN, which has been slashed since austerity was introduced (and was going to need more money anyway with increased diagnoses).

I think the bit you are missing is that the whole system in the UK was designed to help the asset rich (typically the aristocracy as the biggest landowners) hide their wealth and avoid taxes! All of our laws around things like trusts, inheritance tax, land tenure and corporate governance make it easy to hide wealth from public view. This coupled with our network of offshore banking and tax havens means that the Uk is the biggest tax evasion enabler on the planet!

It’s quite tragic that we are all left scratching our heads wondering why everything is so unfair whilst the cogs of a system that’s designed that way keep grinding!

Changes in the system like bolstering the numbers within HMRC will do nothing, only changes to the system would make a real difference.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

By any means necessary, get the criminal, Tory scum out.

Yes. That is priority 1.

Once we get a government that is actually trying to govern, rather than just create and exploit wedge issues, then we can have a conversation about Starmer's personal and policy flaws.

But if the Tories get back in, will they ever be beaten?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Why is Starmer getting stick about the Gaza situation as his party is in opposition, I don’t really get it. But I actually believe his stance is more popular than the rabid left think.

The Tories and the tory press blame him for anything that goes wrong,

They don't worry about details such as him only ever having been in opposition, presumably because they know their core vote gets confused quite easily.

 

[Hamilton]

This is the first time since I've been old enough to vote that im not sure I can be bothered.

Thanks for giving us another term of the Tories then.

Starmer is trying to get elected and yet he's being accused of by some on here (not you) of "lying easily and frequently". That's some call for a guy who has dedicated his life to working for human rights and in a political spectrum that is centre left.

We have to see the bigger picture here. Starmer knows that if he takes a position outside the government position then the media will use it to crucify him. It may play well to the protesters calling for a ceasefire, but I doubt it'll win him an election.

My message to all those doubting him would be, stay together. Don't be led into a trap. Don't let Bravermann, Sunak and the ERG lead us into more years of deprived political thinking.

 

[Badger Boy]

Why is Starmer getting stick about the Gaza situation as his party is in opposition, I don’t really get it. But I actually believe his stance is more popular than the rabid left think.

Because as the opposition leader, he really should be saying something meaningful or at least give the impression he is thoughtful and considered on the issue. Currently he doesn't seem like he has anything serious to say and isn't demonstrating how he would respond to such a crisis. It's a failure of leadership of his party right now and it's at the worst possible time - we need him to be clear and have a clear position and be articulating it in an effective manner. At the moment he doesn't seem any more of a serious leader than Miliband did.

And to be clear, I'm absolutely voting Peter Kyle in the General and I sincerely hope Labour sweep to a majority but I'm not 100% sure Starmer is the right man to be PM. But I am certain he'll be better than Sunak.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Thanks for giving us another term of the Tories then.

Starmer is trying to get elected and yet he's being accused of by some on here (not you) of "lying easily and frequently". That's some call for a guy who has dedicated his life to working for human rights and in a political spectrum that is centre left.

We have to see the bigger picture here. Starmer knows that if he takes a position outside the government position then the media will use it to crucify him. It may play well to the protesters calling for a ceasefire, but I doubt it'll win him an election.

My message to all those doubting him would be, stay together. Don't be led into a trap. Don't let Bravermann, Sunak and the ERG lead us into more years of deprived political thinking.

This is exactly it. The Tories are setting traps, their press are setting traps.

I weep for the people of Gaza. But I don't want Starmer to be pitching up at rallies

Starmer gets sucked in to these kind of issues = He gets the Corbyn treatment by the press = he loses the next election = 5 more years of miserable tory rule.

Starmer's overriding philosophy is to not do or say anything which ends up on a tory election leaflet. The tory press are absolutely gagging for him to lose his self discipline.

So far, he's done brilliantly, as evidenced by polling by-elections etc. It's immensely frustrating for Labour activists and all decent people who want peace and justice in the middle east.

 

[chickens]

Because as the opposition leader, he really should be saying something meaningful or at least give the impression he is thoughtful and considered on the issue. Currently he doesn't seem like he has anything serious to say and isn't demonstrating how he would respond to such a crisis. It's a failure of leadership of his party right now and it's at the worst possible time - we need him to be clear and have a clear position and be articulating it in an effective manner. At the moment he doesn't seem any more of a serious leader than Miliband did.

And to be clear, I'm absolutely voting Peter Kyle in the General and I sincerely hope Labour sweep to a majority but I'm not 100% sure Starmer is the right man to be PM. But I am certain he'll be better than Sunak.

Put yourself in his shoes. He’s running a party that has previously had issues with anti-semitism with a hostile press waiting to pounce. Anything less than pretty much parroting Israel’s position will immediately be used as evidence of further anti-semitism and used to attack both Starmer and Labour. Starmer can’t do anything for anyone from opposition. First he has to be elected.

I’ll be able to judge Starmer after a term in power, and not before. I would prefer a more nuanced position from him than we’re getting, but I completely understand why he’s positioned himself where he has.

 

[ClemFandango]

There will be no peace in the Middle East while Hamas exists. Starmer’s position in refusing to call for a ceasefire against murderous and avowed anti-Semites is clear and commendable

 

[Badger Boy]

Put yourself in his shoes. He’s running a party that has previously had issues with anti-semitism with a hostile press waiting to pounce. Anything less than pretty much parroting Israel’s position will immediately be used as evidence of further anti-semitism and used to attack both Starmer and Labour. Starmer can’t do anything for anyone from opposition. First he has to be elected.

I’ll be able to judge Starmer after a term in power, and not before. I would prefer a more nuanced position from him than we’re getting, but I completely understand why he’s positioned himself where he has.

I disagree, I think his public statements have reinforced the impression that many people (even me as a supporter of the party) feel he lacks either the clarity of thought on his response to the crisis, lacks the messaging capability to get his point across or doesn't have the confidence to really stand his ground/speak his mind on the situation.

I do agree with you that ultimately he can only be judged on his performance should be in the role but I'm not 100% convinced he's going to get the opportunity and if he doesn't then I think it will be in part due to his failure to differentiate himself on this issue. I see this as a real opportunity for him to drive the conversation but instead he'd rather not get the question and defer to government. That's not leadership.

 

[chickens]

I disagree, I think his public statements have reinforced the impression that many people (even me as a supporter of the party) feel he lacks either the clarity of thought on his response to the crisis, lacks the messaging capability to get his point across or doesn't have the confidence to really stand his ground/speak his mind on the situation.

I do agree with you that ultimately he can only be judged on his performance should be in the role but I'm not 100% convinced he's going to get the opportunity and if he doesn't then I think it will be in part due to his failure to differentiate himself on this issue. I see this as a real opportunity for him to drive the conversation but instead he'd rather not get the question and defer to government. That's not leadership.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Starmer had adopted a more nuanced role on this, he would have been preaching to the choir in terms of traditional Labour Party support, but would have given the attack dogs red meat to attack Labour once again as anti-Semitic.

I would predict multiple headlines and articles along the lines of: “Labour still has a problem with anti-semitism”, “Labour not fit to govern”, “Labour supports Hamas” and “Labour condones murder and kidnap”

None of it true, but some mud will stick with those who are all too ready to believe it, and deeply unhelpful in the run up to an election.

What Starmer is doing, while frustrating to the party faithful, is actually quite clever. He’s trying to make Labour as small a target as possible in the run up to the election by not throwing out red meat to those primed to attack him. It allows the nation to focus on what the Conservative Party is up to, and that’s the best advert for a Labour government you could possibly get.

 

[WATFORD zero]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Starmer had adopted a more nuanced role on this, he would have been preaching to the choir in terms of traditional Labour Party support, but would have given the attack dogs red meat to attack Labour once again as anti-Semitic.

I would predict multiple headlines and articles along the lines of: “Labour still has a problem with anti-semitism”, “Labour not fit to govern”, “Labour supports Hamas” and “Labour condones murder and kidnap”

None of it true, but some mud will stick with those who are all too ready to believe it, and deeply unhelpful in the run up to an election.

What Starmer is doing, while frustrating to the party faithful, is actually quite clever. He’s trying to make Labour as small a target as possible in the run up to the election by not throwing out red meat to those primed to attack him. It allows the nation to focus on what the Conservative Party is up to, and that’s the best advert for a Labour government you could possibly get.

I think that the current cabal supporters offering absolutely nothing on any of the 'many Government bashing' threads on NSC and are reduced to bouncing this thread occasionally with a sarcastic slogan, 'They're all the same', 'Why doesn't Starmer' or a simple 'Can't be arsed to vote', shows how successfully he's managing the situation currently.