[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Badger Boy]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Starmer had adopted a more nuanced role on this, he would have been preaching to the choir in terms of traditional Labour Party support, but would have given the attack dogs red meat to attack Labour once again as anti-Semitic.

I would predict multiple headlines and articles along the lines of: “Labour still has a problem with anti-semitism”, “Labour not fit to govern”, “Labour supports Hamas” and “Labour condones murder and kidnap”

None of it true, but some mud will stick with those who are all too ready to believe it, and deeply unhelpful in the run up to an election.

What Starmer is doing, while frustrating to the party faithful, is actually quite clever. He’s trying to make Labour as small a target as possible in the run up to the election by not throwing out red meat to those primed to attack him. It allows the nation to focus on what the Conservative Party is up to, and that’s the best advert for a Labour government you could possibly get.

I sincerely hope you're absolutely right in your assessment. Ultimately, we're both firmly in agreement that he should become Prime Minister and hopefully as soon as possible, then we'll see the type of leader he is when empowered.

 

[chickens]

I think that the current cabal supporters offering absolutely nothing on any of the 'many Government bashing' threads on NSC and are reduced to bouncing this thread occasionally with a sarcastic slogan, 'They're all the same', 'Why doesn't Starmer' or a simple 'Can't be arsed to vote', shows how successfully he's managing the situation currently.

I’m honestly not sure that the current cabal have much support at all anywhere. We’re currently living with a government voted for effectively by Wokeworrier, Is it PotG and Live by the Sea. Two of whom are on my ignore list for bad faith arguing/not answering questions and one of whom flounced of their own accord.

I think about 80% of Johnson’s support came from people who thought he was a twinkly eyed old buffer who was quite good on “Have I Got News For You”, rather than a dyed in the wool bullshit merchant and destroyer of nations.

That Rishi is (comparatively) economically competent and hasn’t tried to drive the country into a ditch then run away (see Truss/Kwarteng) counts in his favour.

That he is held hostage by the frothing right of his party to the extent that he can’t remove Braverman and begin to repair the damage done to the Conservative Party by these last few years, counts against him.

I would personally like to see the Conservative Party in its current form pushed into third or fourth place in the next election, and have adult debate between Labour and the Lib Dem’s on how to take the country forward.

I don’t even want to see Braverman et al in opposition, it cheapens our politics and paints us as a cruel and stupid people. I accept that some feel Labour isn’t for them, but for all that is human don’t actively cast your vote for modern Conservatism. Find a saner, more competent alternative or spoil your ballot.

 

[rippleman]

Put yourself in his shoes. He’s running a party that has previously had issues with anti-semitism with a hostile press waiting to pounce. Anything less than pretty much parroting Israel’s position will immediately be used as evidence of further anti-semitism and used to attack both Starmer and Labour. Starmer can’t do anything for anyone from opposition. First he has to be elected.

I’ll be able to judge Starmer after a term in power, and not before. I would prefer a more nuanced position from him than we’re getting, but I completely understand why he’s positioned himself where he has.

It really isn't a "Tory trap". It was Starmer himself who said that it wasn't time to call for a ceasefire. I emailed him last week to ask when he thought it would be the right time to call for a ceasefire. He hasn't replied.

I saw on the news Thurs / Fri last week a young boy (not much older than my grandson) sitting amongst rubble following another Israeli attack. He was clearly traumatised and kept wailing "we didn't do anything wrong". It was heartbreaking and I'm struggling to get it out of my head.

If Starmer watched that with no empathy or compassion and is quite content to follow Sunak's "you carry on killing guys, it's all fine by us" approach then he isn't any different to Sunak and he isn't of the character that I would vote for to lead this country. I have only ever voted Labour in a GE...........until now.

 

[chickens]

It really isn't a "Tory trap". It was Starmer himself who said that it wasn't time to call for a ceasefire. I emailed him last week to ask when he thought it would be the right time to call for a ceasefire. He hasn't replied.

I saw on the news Thurs / Fri last week a young boy (not much older than my grandson) sitting amongst rubble following another Israeli attack. He was clearly traumatised and kept wailing "we didn't do anything wrong". It was heartbreaking and I'm struggling to get it out of my head.

If Starmer watched that with no empathy or compassion and is quite content to follow Sunak's "you carry on killing guys, it's all fine by us" approach then he isn't any different to Sunak and he isn't of the character that I would vote for to lead this country. I have only ever voted Labour in a GE...........until now.

You and I are going to have to disagree on this. Not voting Labour is absolutely a choice you’re free to make, but I don’t believe Starmer is free to speak openly on this subject for the reasons I’ve outlined in my post on this thread following the one you’ve quoted.

You’re absolutely free to place your vote where you believe it will do most good, I don’t think there’s anybody on here who is openly cheerleading the destruction of civilian homes and the killing of innocent people, and there’s a detailed and thoughtful thread on that subject here already. What’s happening to the innocent of both sides in that conflict is horrific.

We may never know Starmer’s true feelings on this conflict, or at least not until he’s long retired from politics and is writing his memoirs, but I suspect you do him a disservice if you believe that his private feelings and public statements are perfectly aligned.

 

[Machiavelli]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If Starmer had adopted a more nuanced role on this, he would have been preaching to the choir in terms of traditional Labour Party support, but would have given the attack dogs red meat to attack Labour once again as anti-Semitic.

I would predict multiple headlines and articles along the lines of: “Labour still has a problem with anti-semitism”, “Labour not fit to govern”, “Labour supports Hamas” and “Labour condones murder and kidnap”

None of it true, but some mud will stick with those who are all too ready to believe it, and deeply unhelpful in the run up to an election.

What Starmer is doing, while frustrating to the party faithful, is actually quite clever. He’s trying to make Labour as small a target as possible in the run up to the election by not throwing out red meat to those primed to attack him. It allows the nation to focus on what the Conservative Party is up to, and that’s the best advert for a Labour government you could possibly get.

I suspect you're probably right on this. Good post.
Lots of people judging Starmer now, I'll reserve mine until he governs and we'll see what he does. I suspect he'll disappoint; the situation requires that he doesn't.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think the bit you are missing is that the whole system in the UK was designed to help the asset rich (typically the aristocracy as the biggest landowners) hide their wealth and avoid taxes! All of our laws around things like trusts, inheritance tax, land tenure and corporate governance make it easy to hide wealth from public view. This coupled with our network of offshore banking and tax havens means that the Uk is the biggest tax evasion enabler on the planet!

It’s quite tragic that we are all left scratching our heads wondering why everything is so unfair whilst the cogs of a system that’s designed that way keep grinding!

Changes in the system like bolstering the numbers within HMRC will do nothing, only changes to the system would make a real difference.

I think you might be telling me that even before the UK came into being, the City of London existed, and globalisation existed and, until we wake up to that, we'll carry on as we are.
But, I might have that wrong.

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't really understand how you think your pitiful sneering comes across.

You're a died in the wool Tory who can't see that even if he was the dullest, least dynamic Labour politician available, he'd still be a massive upgrade on an incompetent, lying, corrupt cabal that has spent 13 years absolutely ruining large parts of the country. From food bank usage to public service degradation. from shit flowing into the sea to a damaging referendum that has divided the country and rocked Northern Irish politics.

When Labour left, they had a string of successes they could point to. They were voted out because the national debt had grown. Well since then, the Tories have trebled it and improved absolutely nothing. Instead they've devastated the country.

Most moderate Tories are hanging their heads forlornly (there are plenty on here) at the takeover by UKIP headbangers. Then there's people like you who refuse to acknowledge the damage caused. It's weird and incredibly stupid.

@Is it PotG? can continue: it's cracking public relations.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Been a busy evening for our next leader....

Jess Phillips walks.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Been a busy evening for our next leader.....

I guessed that you would be all over this, but given Nige has now decided 'celebrity' is the way ahead Alexander Boris de Pfeffel has disappeared off the face of the earth and Cruella has gone west, I appreciate your desperation and really wouldn't want to diminish your little Jess Phillips victory today

 

[Is it PotG?]

I guessed that you would be all over this, but given Nige has now decided 'celebrity' is the way ahead Alexander Boris de Pfeffel has disappeared off the face of the earth and Cruella has gone west, I appreciate your desperation and really wouldn't want to diminish your little Jess Phillips victory today

In English?

 

[A1X]

It is amusing watching the Corbynites doing mental gymnastics (what, again? - ed.) about Phillips resigning, given they despise her

 

[WATFORD zero]

In English?

English for Beginners - Easy Lessons, Games and Quizzes

 

[Weststander]

Starmer’s getting his first taste of what I thought might happen early in his time as a PM:
- It’s a shit job, in terms ever more crises and social media obsessive campaigns in this age.
- Factions, both main parties are riddled with them, always have been.

 

[Is it PotG?]

English for Beginners - Easy Lessons, Games and Quizzes

Thanks mate.

 

[LamieRobertson]

lol I thought this thread was a bit quiet …considering todays activities …Phillips gone with more to follow …but it’s suddenly woken up

 

[Greg Bobkin]

If a single ruling political party is divided - as both the main ones seem to be - what hope have we ACTUALLY got? And we're not talking minor disagreements over relatively small policies - these are seemingly polar opposite views on major global issues.

No wonder I think the whole thing is a facking joke!

 

[Is it PotG?]

If a single ruling political party is divided - as both the main ones seem to be - what hope have we ACTUALLY got? And we're not talking minor disagreements over relatively small policies - these are seemingly polar opposite views on major global issues.

No wonder I think the whole thing is a facking joke!

Which stance, if any, do you think Starmer should take?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Which stance, if any, do you think Starmer should take?

I'm not him, so I can't answer that question. But I'm guessing that whichever stance he took, it would be the 'wrong' one for a certain section of his party

 

[Weststander]

lol I thought this thread was a bit quiet …considering todays activities …Phillips gone with more to follow …but it’s suddenly woken up

I blame Boris. I don’t know why just now, but I’ll concoct a connection between Jess, Boris and Keir.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

If a single ruling political party is divided - as both the main ones seem to be - what hope have we ACTUALLY got? And we're not talking minor disagreements over relatively small policies - these are seemingly polar opposite views on major global issues.

No wonder I think the whole thing is a facking joke!

I might be more bothered by this if they were divided over an issue they have any actual influence over.
As it is, they might as well be resigning over what colour dressing gown Arthur Dent was wearing.
To be clear, I'm not trying to reduce the horror of what's going on in Gaza, just to be realistic about what any British government (and much less the opposition) can actually do about it. Which is to say, absolutely bugger all.