[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Thunder Bolt]

You don't have to put your precisious time to waste over me, mate. At some point, on some distant day, you can talk me into a molten pool of foolishness over a couple of pints.

Top Healey reference. And dispensed with the sort of class and elegance the likes of potGtwat could only dream of. I bumped into Jim Callaghan in a lift at St Thomas' Hospital 30 years ago. Big fucker. f***ing massive.

Anyway,......

Can I join in? I met Dennis Healey when he was Defence Secretary & I was in uniform. He said hello to me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can I join in. I met Dennis Healey when he was Defence Secretary & I was in uniform. He said hello to me.

Did you think he was a big fucker? I mean, absurdly impressive giant of a man? Compare him to that nine and a half stone of wet piss, Sunk, and you start to see how this great country has been dragged down (takes out tiny violin) - think of the children....(etc).

 

[BrianB]

Exactly my thought..
Starmer's team work hard and find some funds too better the country ,
The spivs blunderbuss finds it and quickly divvy it out among their paymasters followed by screaming about how the sensible folks can't fund their promises.
And we're supposed to think the spivs have our interests at heart .

 

[A1X]

Did you think he was a big fucker? I mean, absurdly impressive giant of a man? Compare him to that nine and a half stone of wet piss, Sunk, and you start to see how this great country has been dragged down (takes out tiny violin) - think of the children....(etc).

Someone mentioned it on Twitter mentioned that Rishi gives off massive Scrappy Doo vibes and honestly I can’t stop thinking about it

 

[Sirnormangall]

Can I join in? I met Dennis Healey when he was Defence Secretary & I was in uniform. He said hello to me.

I’d like to join in too - I never met him but he used to stop off at our local Chinese ( Happy Valley in Hollingbury) on the way back home from the Commons. notwithstanding that he lived for 98 years.

 

[ROSM]

I too met Dennis Healey. I served him in a business I worked for. My colleague kept saying to him 'Go on, do your catchphrase. Y'know, the one off the telly'. Healey, very calmly explained that it wasnt his catchphrase and that it was something a tv comic/impressionist (mike yarwood) had said while in character as him when he had got his line wrong.

Anyhows, after being served he was just about to leave and he got to the door where he stopped, looked round and said in a loud booming voice,

'what a silly billy' and left guffawing to himself.


Thats one for the oldies amongst us.

 

[Rdodge30]

Wasn’t it £28billion A YEAR though originally? So £140 billion per term?

 

[Rdodge30]

Sir John Curtise - source The Times:


Sir John Curtice, the polling expert, said the U-turn “does reinforce the impression that people don’t know what Starmer stands for, they don’t know what he is going to do and they haven’t quite been convinced”.

But he said voters were already clear that they were willing to vote Labour despite this. “It’s Labour’s good fortune that people aren’t voting for them because they’re enthusiastic, they’re voting for them because they’re so unhappy with the Tories,” he said. “You’re looking at a party that has been gifted this election. I think the problem the Labour party should start worrying about is how to maintain popularity after they win.”

 

[Barnet Seagull]

The answer in my mind is not to tax income, it is to remove all taxes and tax all payment.

If every financial transaction carried a small taxable element, the amount of tax would be significantly lower. In addition, those who have more money pay more.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Not bothered about suggesting a percentage. Let the parties bid.

The benefits were clearly explained.

1. We all pay. No exceptions. So we are all in it together.
2. We all pay the same % so it is fair.
3. The lower paid will get paid more from their employers (via upping minimum wage). This ups the whole employment game. Better paid means of more value to the company, meaning better treatment and better self esteem. After the push back, of course.
4. An end to the relentless tax dodging.
5. A much simpler and cheaper system to operate.
6. No scope for top earners to spend 30% of what they would have paid in income tax to 'tax experts' who would arrange that the other 70% stays with the rich bloke rather than going to the exchequer.

And so on.

Points 1 and 2 are very Poll Tax like ( which I think is a fairer way to pay for local services ).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sir John Curtise - source The Times:


Sir John Curtice, the polling expert, said the U-turn “does reinforce the impression that people don’t know what Starmer stands for, they don’t know what he is going to do and they haven’t quite been convinced”.

But he said voters were already clear that they were willing to vote Labour despite this. “It’s Labour’s good fortune that people aren’t voting for them because they’re enthusiastic, they’re voting for them because they’re so unhappy with the Tories,” he said. “You’re looking at a party that has been gifted this election. I think the problem the Labour party should start worrying about is how to maintain popularity after they win.”

Using the term U-turn is misleading and playing into Tory hands. The plan has been adjusted not abandoned.
Still, the voters will only remember the headline, so propaganda job done.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Points 1 and 2 are very Poll Tax like ( which I think is a fairer way to pay for local services ).

Going out and mugging random passers by would be a fairer way to pay for local services than the current nonsense of basing it on house prices circa 1990.

 

[abc]

I feel the US result is more important this year, Trump is a real danger to the world.

This. The result of our GE will have little or no impact on the wider world. Trump being elected is likely to take the world to war.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Can I join in? I met Dennis Healey when he was Defence Secretary & I was in uniform. He said hello to me.

Labour top trumps ! So I served Tony Blair ( before he was PM ) tea and biscuits at the Royal Albion Hotel. He likes milk chocolate digestives quite alot !

 

[beorhthelm]

Using the term U-turn is misleading and playing into Tory hands. The plan has been adjusted not abandoned.
Still, the voters will only remember the headline, so propaganda job done.

too late, people kept using term U-term when Tories adjust or alter the pace of policy. it's stuck now, any policy change is a u-turn.

 

[abc]

Using the term U-turn is misleading and playing into Tory hands. The plan has been adjusted not abandoned.
Still, the voters will only remember the headline, so propaganda job done.

I hate the use of U turn as a form of attack. If a party/politician listens to the arguments and changes their mind or reviews the ability to deliver something (as in this case) rather than continue to effectively lie, then good for them.
But, Labour have consistently used the accusations of U turns to attack the government over the years and so can hardly complain when it is used against them

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I hate the use of U turn as a form of attack. If a party/politician listens to the arguments and changes their mind or reviews the ability to deliver something (as in this case) rather than continue to effectively lie, then good for them.
But, Labour have consistently used the accusations of U turns to attack the government over the years and so can hardly complain when it is used against them

Truthfully when it comes to HS2. That is a U-turn. Still, Stanley Johnson made a few million out of it.

 

[Rdodge30]

Using the term U-turn is misleading and playing into Tory hands. The plan has been adjusted not abandoned.
Still, the voters will only remember the headline, so propaganda job done.

The first adjustment of the policy was last June when they changed it from £28billion a year to “ramping up to £28 billion in the middle of the term”

This latest adjustment is halving it ….and will probably end up even less

The tories are already running a reel of 35 times that Labour have quoted the £28 billion


To be honest, I don’t believe it is suddenly less affordable now than it was 2 years ago ??

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You don't have to put your precious time to waste over me, mate. At some point, on some distant day, you can talk me into a molten pool of foolishness over a couple of pints.

Top Healey reference. And dispensed with the sort of class and elegance the likes of potGtwat could only dream of. I bumped into Jim Callaghan in a lift at St Thomas' Hospital 30 years ago. Big fucker. f***ing massive.

Anyway,......

I could back out now while everybody's distracted by Healey's magnificent eyebrows, but I said I'd try so I will. I make no claims for being convincing or anything though.

Right, if we start from the point that the aim is to raise the most income, then ideally we want to be taxing at the rate that maximises how much we rake in. I gather that this turns out to be very roughly in the 40%-60% region, since anything above that encourages evasion/avoidance (the legal one) and starts to kill the incentive to work.

Now, if we also accept that we need everybody to have at least a minimum income after tax, then it follows that we can't tax the majority of the population at such a high rate since most people don't earn that much. So, we either have to arbitrarily crank up everybody's gross pay to make sure they earn that much, or we drop the tax rate on lower incomes.

Bearing in mind that, I'd back myself to put together a spreadsheet to work out how much tax somebody needs to pay on their income across the different bands in about 10minutes, I'd suggest that having different tax bands is simpler than completely overhauling everybody's pay and accordingly the whole economy.

That'll do. Progressive taxation from first principles, without any recourse to social engineering, Karl Marx or actual knowledge of economics.

Edit: I do, obviously, agree with the wider aim of simplifying the tax code and the web of excemptions and exclusions etc. But I see that as a separate issue.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The first adjustment of the policy was last June when they changed it from £28billion a year to “ramping up to £28 billion in the middle of the term”

This latest adjustment is halving it ….and will probably end up even less

The tories are already running a reel of 35 times that Labour have quoted the £28 billion


To be honest, I don’t believe it is suddenly less affordable now than it was 2 years ago ??

Read post 1692 by @ROSM for the details.