[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Gwylan]

True! But you know what I meant!

No, I don't. The whole point of UBI is that there are no conditions: there's no means-testing, there are no obligations to do anything; it's a sum that's given to everyone. One of the reasons for implementing UBI is to cut down on bureaucracy, once you start putting in conditions, the whole thing collapses.

 

[Chicken Run]

The majority of the country and its population are deep in shite thanks to 14 years of austerity, cuts and underfunding. On Day One of a Labour government they will have so much to start putting right they probably don't know where to begin.

So many of the struts that bind our society are creaking or already broken under the strain so I can fully understand the Labour change of position on the £28 billion. But, it's hilarious to have people accusing Starmer of backtracking,lying, changing his mind etc especially from a Tory government that exists on lies.

So much for Labour to do and sadly every day Sunak is in charge we go a little bit deeper in to hell. I fear that we are beyond hope now.

I’m sure all will be well after SKS has had 14 years to right the wrongs, and if not at least you can continue to blame the previous government instead of the then current one

 

[Chicken Run]

No, I don't. The whole point of UBI is that there are no conditions: there's no means-testing, there are no obligations to do anything; it's a sum that's given to everyone. One of the reasons for implementing UBI is to cut down on bureaucracy, once you start putting in conditions, the whole thing collapses.

What sort of weekly/monthly payout would you see viable for this UBI?

 

[chickens]

For all those wringing their hands over this, I’d just like to point out that the policy hasn’t been abandoned, the number has.

Labour have quite rightly looked at Rishi and chums driving the British economy repeatedly into a brick wall, and correctly surmised that they won’t quite be achieving the part-ex figures they had hoped for.

The message from Labour is an adult one, it’s that we will do what we can afford to do, and not commit ourselves to an overspend before the election campaign has even kicked off.

 

[The Clamp]

What sort of weekly/monthly payout would you see viable for this UBI?

They’ve trialed a monthly income of £1,600 take home, in parts of the U.K.

Trouble is, surely you’d just get every low paid employee getting themselves sacked and living an okay life on a low but workable income?

That was about my take home when I did social care work, less than that if I’d had to take sick leave.
I’d have left work in a heartbeat for that amount in my account each month, NSA!!

 

[Chicken Run]

They’ve trialed a monthly income of £1,600 take home, in parts of the U.K.

Trouble is, surely you’d just get every low paid employee getting themselves sacked and living an okay life on a low but workable income?

That was about my take home when I did social care work, less than that if I’d had to take sick leave.
I’d have left work in a heartbeat for that amount in my account each month, NSA!!

£1600, wow, that’s every supermarket worker, hospitality worker TA the list is endless of people who would down tools for an easier life, that can’t work surely?

 

[abc]

No, I don't. The whole point of UBI is that there are no conditions: there's no means-testing, there are no obligations to do anything; it's a sum that's given to everyone. One of the reasons for implementing UBI is to cut down on bureaucracy, once you start putting in conditions, the whole thing collapses.

So therefore if someone refuses to work rather than cannot work then they get this sum of money. So I ask again, why does such a person deserve this?

 

[Rdodge30]

The message from Labour is an adult one, it’s that we will do what we can afford to do, and not commit ourselves to an overspend before the election campaign has even kicked off.

Unfortunately, the original message- that they would spend £28 billion every year for 5 years was the problem. Did you believe it when they announced it?

 

[KZNSeagull]

They’ve trialed a monthly income of £1,600 take home, in parts of the U.K.

Trouble is, surely you’d just get every low paid employee getting themselves sacked and living an okay life on a low but workable income?

That was about my take home when I did social care work, less than that if I’d had to take sick leave.
I’d have left work in a heartbeat for that amount in my account each month, NSA!!

How did the trial go? Did every low paid worker leave or did they carry on to supplement their income?

 

[Chicken Run]

So therefore if someone refuses to work rather than cannot work then they get this sum of money. So I ask again, why does such a person deserve this?

I think he’s suggesting everyone wether they work or not gets this as a basic income then if you want more you go out to work , they then save money on not policing the benefits system, one could argue that the figure go vary from region to region associated with cost of living but that would be a cluster f*** trying to measure.

 

[The Clamp]

How did the trial go? Did every low paid worker leave or did they carry on to supplement their income?

No idea.

Is this amount given to everyone? Working and unemployed?

I was under the impression it was just for the unemployed.

Pretty sure it’s only for unemployed or low income households. That’s how it works in other countries. It’s not just given to anyone and everyone .

 

[KZNSeagull]

No idea.

Is this amount given to everyone? Working and unemployed?

I was under the impression it was just for the unemployed.

Everyone would get it.

 

[The Clamp]

Everyone would get it.

Odd. That’s not how it works in other countries that have it or ones that are considering it, like Canada.

It’s just for the unemployed and low income households.

 

[The Clamp]

Edit, seems a google search has conflicting answers. Some say everyone gets it.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Odd. That’s not how it works in other countries that have it or ones that are considering it, like Canada.

It’s just for the unemployed and low income households.

Then what they are doing is not a universal basic income.

 

[chickens]

Unfortunately, the original message- that they would spend £28 billion every year for 5 years was the problem. Did you believe it when they announced it?

They’d already said that they wouldn’t have any uncosted policies, so I assume at the point of announcing the original policy they believed they’d have the headroom to achieve this.

They’ve seen that the Conservatives have continued to erode the public finances and no longer believe that their original number is achievable.

How refreshing to have some honesty.

I’m not sure that revising a policy according to the data is a terrible idea. In fact I’d encourage it.

 

[Gwylan]

What sort of weekly/monthly payout would you see viable for this UBI?

I've no idea. I'm not an economist/civil servant. The £1600 mentioned in a trial sounds slightly too high to me but it may be viable. It's certainly not a lot for someone bringing up four or five kids. There'd need to be other adjustments made too: rents would need to be reduced somehow.

I think UBI is an interesting concept but the UK is too large an economy to implement it. It might be viable for a newly independent Scotland though. I'm sure one country will implement at some point - probably one of the new breed of right wing populist politicians -and then the whole world will be watching,

 

[Chicken Run]

Edit, seems a google search has conflicting answers. Some say everyone gets it.

My basic understanding is that everyone gets it no matter how financially well off you are, the pros are of course the whole benefits system and associated management and administration of disappears saving billions, the cons are debatable but £1600 in your pocket each month for doing f*** all imho spells disaster, If people aren’t working, there is less taxable income for a start, and that’s before you consider the effects of lack of workforce, sure companies will have to pay more to entice people out of bed but ultimately that cost will be past onto the consumer and prices will rise, the those who live solely off UBI and haven’t worked for a few years will start asking for more.

 

[The Clamp]

“Participants in England’s first universal basic income trial get paid each month without having to lift a finger. Here’s how universal basic works and what the pilot could mean for UK workers.
The 30 participants in the trial will be handed £1,600 a month for the next two years to find out what impact money has on their lives.
Some argue that a universal basic income (UBI) could reduce poverty, simplify the welfare system, provide security in the labour market and boost personal wellbeing.
Critics believe the system would be very expensive and difficult to implement and could lead to further skills shortages”….

How would a £1,600 a month universal basic income work?

A universal basic income trial is to take place in the UK. Thirty people will be handed £1,600 a month for two years - no strings attached

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The landscape thats changing is our planet, its burning.

History won't judge today's politicians well. They had a chance and squandered it

It will take a global effort to fix the climate.

Meanwhile, my missus uses hot water to wash various glass and plastic items before putting them into the recycling (whereupon it all ends up in China in landfill).