[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

[Garyoldfan]

Because it only appeals to people who think that all 18 year olds are scumbags causing trouble on the street.

They are aren’t they

 

[Garyoldfan]

Namby pamby goes back to 1725, so it doesn’t just refer to modern day society.

"All ye Poets of the Age!
All ye Witlings of the Stage!
Learn your Jingles to reform!Crop your Numbers and Conform:
Let your little Verses flowGently, Sweetly, Row by Row:
Let the Verse the Subject fit;
Little Subject, Little Wit.Namby-Pamby is your Guide;
Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride

That’s what I was gonna say but I abbreviated it with namby pamby so the others could keep up.

 

[Bodian]

Is this just whilst you are 18? Some people will turn 18 fairly early on in their final school year - so they will presumably be unable to do the military service part and will have to do the volunteering part. Quite a few 18 year olds will have weekend jobs already - will they have to give them up to be able to 'volunteer' for one weekend a month, or will the scheme compensate employers for letting their employees volunteer?

What happens if you already have a full-time apprenticeship post - do you have to give it up?

And if the point of it is to force 18-year olds to 'do something' - if they are already in full-time apprenticeship work, how is this going to help?

 

[RandyWanger]

In principal it could work. If you don’t go into higher education, don’t have an apprenticeship or a full time job, then why not? Teach life skills, discipline, training etc as long as they’re not 18 year old lambs to the slaughter used as cannon fodder in the next war the tories bankroll.

 

[Zeberdi]

The poll research carried out by the Right Wing Think tank, Onward, which I was quoting above, concluded that the majority favoured some form of NS but not if it was compulsory - other poll research may differ - depends how the questions are phrased and the sampling group.

“New opinion polling commissioned by Onward shows that 57% of British people support national service versus 19% who oppose it. The most popular model included civil and military activities, with 53% more likely to support such a mixed programme. Crucially, three times as many young people support the idea than oppose it. But the majority of people oppose a mandatory scheme, including nearly two-thirds of young people.”

Great British National Service

Great British National Service: How national service could develop skills, improve mental wellbeing, and increase a sense of belonging among Britain's youth

www.ukonward.com

It was endorsed by Sunak apparently.

 

[The Clamp]

Can’t see how it works as a voluntary system.

Currently those who want it join the military can do so and those who want to carry out civic / charity work, can do so.

I’m starting to get the notion that this hasn’t been thought through properly

 

[Zeberdi]

Can’t see how it works as a voluntary system.

Currently those who want it join the military can do so and those who want to carry out civic / charity work, can do so.

I’m starting to get the notion that this hasn’t been thought through properly

Sunak’s proposal isn’t voluntary - it’s mandatory . That is why it is causing so much controversy.

The “choice” is between doing 12 months with the military in a non-combative role learning cyber security, logistics, procurement, or civil response operations. Or “volunteering” ie unpaid - work one weekend every 4 for 12 months.

(The majority would apparently not be accepted onto the military placements (which actually sound like a bauble) as they need to have particular aptitudes and only 30,000 places would be available.)

But yes, it hasn’t been thought out - most election manifesto promises aren’t, they are just designed to win votes (in this case from Reform and an older demographic) - nether the military, nor public responder services have been consulted not has it been costed.

 

[Baldseagull]

Maybe we could have enforced public service from our politicians first, get them to actually do stuff in the interests of the country rather than their own future career prospects, or for a straight backhander.

 

[Zeberdi]

Maybe we could have enforced public service from our politicians first, get them to actually do stuff in the interests of the country rather than their own future career prospects, or for a straight backhander.

Or pay them the equivalent of a Band 5 or 6 Nurse of £34,000-£42,000 per an - after 7 years on the job.

Not £91,346 + plus office costs and a house/flat in London for doing this

 

[Zeberdi]

Oops

 

[BrianSwan]

All these European countries talking about bringing back National service gives me big WW3 worries...

Germany are thinking about it too. Russia got everyone spooked.

 

[Bodian]

Sunak’s proposal isn’t voluntary - it’s mandatory . That is why it is causing so much controversy.

The “choice” is between doing 12 months with the military in a non-combative role learning cyber security, logistics, procurement, or civil response operations. Or “volunteering” ie unpaid - work one weekend every 4 for 12 months.

(The majority would apparently not be accepted onto the military placements (which actually sound like a bauble) as they need to have particular aptitudes and only 30,000 places would be available.)

But yes, it hasn’t been thought out - most election manifesto promises aren’t, they are just designed to win votes (in this case from Reform and an older demographic) - nether the military, nor public responder services have been consulted not has it been costed.

It's mandatory. Except there's seemingly no punishment if you avoid it. So, virtually voluntary.

 

[Zeberdi]

It's mandatory. Except there's seemingly no punishment if you avoid it. So, virtually voluntary.

I understood there would be sanctions just not imprisonment ( as there was for conscientious objectors)

Im not defending it at all but far better it were altogether voluntary than mandatory with ‘sanctions’

Even if it is mandatory with no avoidance punishment it still puts 18 year olds into an intolerable position that they would have to break the law if they didn’t want to participate

That’s just wrong.

 

[Motogull]

It seems to me that real life solders will be much less relevant as we see, and are seeing, advances in cyber attacks, robots and drones. More worrying is the alternative; bloody powerful missiles.

 

[BLOCK F]

A dreadful idea, as I said earlier, but It isn’t going to happen, so I’m not giving it any more thought.

 

[Zeberdi]

A dreadful idea, as I said earlier, but It isn’t going to happen, so I’m not giving it any more thought.

Well it’s an idea (albeit a dreadful one) that’s actually been mooted by the current leader of the Government - so it does make you wonder what the state of our security is in this country.

This NS proposal has been slammed for just being expensive Review rather than an actual plan but tbh Starmar’s approach to National Security doesn’t fill me with much confidence either given the current risks we face :

From the Labour Mission Statement

“Conduct a Strategic Defence and Security Review in our first year in government to fully understand the state of our Armed Forces, the nature of threats we face and the capabilities needed.”

https://labour.org.uk/missions/#:~:text=Strong%20national%20defence,have%20been%20'hollowed%20out'.

 

[beorhthelm]

Sunak’s proposal isn’t voluntary - it’s mandatory . That is why it is causing so much controversy.

The “choice” is between doing 12 months with the military in a non-combative role learning cyber security, logistics, procurement, or civil response operations. Or “volunteering” ie unpaid - work one weekend every 4 for 12 months.

(The majority would apparently not be accepted onto the military placements (which actually sound like a bauble) as they need to have particular aptitudes and only 30,000 places would be available.)

But yes, it hasn’t been thought out - most election manifesto promises aren’t, they are just designed to win votes (in this case from Reform and an older demographic) - nether the military, nor public responder services have been consulted not has it been costed.

along this line of thinking. in practice this means a year in the forces would be in effect a years paid training in one of our best technical colleges. not that it would happen, it would mess up with higher education too much, would likely watered down to alternative alongside current compulsory education or training, maybe some boot camp across forces, emergency services or volunteering as a compulsory element.

 

[Zeberdi]

along this line of thinking. in practice this means a year in the forces would be in effect a years paid training in one of our best technical colleges. not that it would happen, it would mess up with A levels too much, would likely watered down to another alternative, maybe some boot camp across forces, emergency services or volunteering as a compulsory element.

I didn’t say it was a good idea!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bribery?

 

[Clive Walker]

As I’ve often said, talk to people who have actually done it and any idea that it’s some magic cure-all to instill some much needed discipline etc soon fades. Unsurprisingly.

My old man did it: chatted up the birds, hung around having tremendous fun playing music and drinking beer in pubs in Germany. My German cousin did it: every photo he has of those days is him and his fellow conscripts roaring drunk, clowning around at what they referred to as the “federal drinking academy”. Maybe not quite what Daily Mail readers/Tories have in mind.

Yeah some people have a cracking time. Some also die too.