Should The UK Now Convert To The Euro ?

[Man of Harveys]

It can't happen without a referendum.

Yes it can - where are the rules on what requires a referendum in this country? There aren't any. The UK joined the EEC in 1975 without one and only held one to decide on staying in because the cabinet had split on the subject.

Some decisions are too complex and important to entrust to the people who appear on Jeremy Kyle to vote on - we all pay our politicians and civil servants enough money to legislate and execute for us, not for them to bottle out of making and implementing tough decisions that might possibly fly in the face of the opinions of the press barons.

 

[beorhthelm]

Some decisions are too complex and important to entrust to the people who appear on Jeremy Kyle to vote on - we all pay our politicians and civil servants enough money to legislate and execute for us, not for them to bottle out of making and implementing tough decisions that might possibly fly in the face of the opinions of the press barons.

and some decisions are too important and specific to leave to politicans to decide upon when the electorate voted them in on a wider manifesto, which included a commitment to a referedum on the subject.

 

[Simster]

and some decisions are too important and specific to leave to politicans to decide upon when the electorate voted them in on a wider manifesto, which included a commitment to a referedum on the subject.

But if this went to a referendum, there would be some incredibly thick and insular people voting NO simply because someone in the pub told them that the queen's head would be replaced by a picture of an EC building in Brussels.

That said, I'm with Barnet here. With the way our economy is currently structured, I don't think we should join. Maybe at a later date though.

 

[Trufflehound]

The one good thing about us not being in the euro is that my german bank account gets fatter by the day.

Just in case you hadn't noticed, the pound has strengthened 10% in relation to the euro so far in 2009. Gone back from 1.02 a couple of weeks ago to 1.125 (mid-rate) today.

Should have cashed in when you had a chance (you have not been charged for that advice).

 

[coventrygull]

Yes it can - where are the rules on what requires a referendum in this country? There aren't any. The UK joined the EEC in 1975 without one and only held one to decide on staying in because the cabinet had split on the subject.

Some decisions are too complex and important to entrust to the people who appear on Jeremy Kyle to vote on - we all pay our politicians and civil servants enough money to legislate and execute for us, not for them to bottle out of making and implementing tough decisions that might possibly fly in the face of the opinions of the press barons.

If we didn't have a referendum. I would think there would be a spot of bother in this. I don't think given away your economic freedom is that complex

 

[Pavilionaire]

The title of this thread is "Should the UK NOW convert to the Euro?"

I can't think of worse time for us to go in than when the £ is the weakest it has been for years.

This a decision that requires timing, and there have been many occasions in the past few years when it would have been economically beneficial to move but, like so many other big issues, the politicians have run scared.

 

[Simster]

If we didn't have a referendum. I would think there would be a spot of bother in this. I don't think given away your economic freedom is that complex

I'm not sure I agree with the "economic freedom" argument as a reason for holding a referendum. Anyone who thinks we have any sort of real economic freedom is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The one argument that I can see for holding a referendum is that, put simply, once the decision to enter the € has been made, it cannot easily be reversed. Maybe that's what you meant, in which case I apologise for not realising!

 

[The Large One]

If we didn't have a referendum. I would think there would be a spot of bother in this. I don't think given away your economic freedom is that complex

They could end up doing what they did in the instance of Man of Harveys was referring to.

Join the Euro, then two years later, have a referendum on whether to KEEP the Euro.

 

[withdeanwombat]

...............but the notes LOOK nice,and we would still only have to worry about the euro in our pocket,eh?

 

[coventrygull]

I'm not sure I agree with the "economic freedom" argument as a reason for holding a referendum. Anyone who thinks we have any sort of real economic freedom is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The one argument that I can see for holding a referendum is that, put simply, once the decision to enter the € has been made, it cannot easily be reversed. Maybe that's what you meant, in which case I apologise for not realising!

Of course our "Economic freedom" is subject to the world economy but yes once we were in it would be harder to get out.

 

[coventrygull]

They could end up doing what they did in the instance of Man of Harveys was referring to.

Join the Euro, then two years later, have a referendum on whether to KEEP the Euro.

But once we were in would we be able to get out.

 

[The Large One]

The title of this thread is "Should the UK NOW convert to the Euro?"

I can't think of worse time for us to go in than when the £ is the weakest it has been for years.

This a decision that requires timing, and there have been many occasions in the past few years when it would have been economically beneficial to move but, like so many other big issues, the politicians have run scared.

The politicians will never to join until they know they have the will of the people. And the people are being kept in ignorance. Point is, as was referred to on here earlier, the vast majority of people will not be able to make a judgement call on whether it's right to join because the issues are complex and baffling.

All we'd up with is the equal and vociferous rhetoric of both sides, some of whose arguments would cancel each other out and some of whose arguments wouldn't make sense. The rest of us meanwhile would just scratch our heads and say 'Wha...?'

 

[The Large One]

But once we were in would we be able to get out.

That would be the precise point of anyone who does decide to go that route. By then, it would probably be too late.

I don't remember the UK joining the EEC in 1973, nor the referendum in 1975 (too young - no, really). It was the Tories (Edward Heath) who took us in, and Labour (under Harold Wilson) who held the referendum. Perhaps someone on here could say whether it was felt the horse had already bolted by 1975.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Can someone please explain, in idiot-proof terms, the pros and cons of joining the Euro?

More idiot proof explanations please. In my mind it's like this:

Pros: Good for trade and so I'm told economic stability
Cons: There wouldn't be much left in this country that we actually control.

Someone please enlighten me as to why those views are misguided.
Ta.

 

[The Lizard's Tail]

Interesting debate, which ultimately highlights the reason not to have a referendum on the subject. Even in this small group there is a very high proportion of people who vote "no" on the basis of groundless arguments ("we are proud of the pound", " the french eat too much garlic", "beer is expensive in ireland", etc). If 95% of the population do not (or never wish to) understand the benifits of being in the Euro (such as not having periods where products in the EU are cheap or expensive, dependent on what the exchange rate is doing that day) then why bother asking.

Should we join - "yes". Should we join now - "yes" - the exchange is currently not great but the longer you leave it the more uncertainty we face in the meantime. Bizarely the low exchange rate at the moment actually encourages investment into the UK so why not capitalise on this and reap the benifits now?

 

[Pavilionaire]

TLO, your second paragraph basically describes the General Election scenario.

We live in a different world now, where our closest and most important market IS the EU, not the Commonwealth or the USA.

We also live in a world where previously thought-of as strong lenders like Abbey are acquired by Spanish upstarts Santander.

I've always been a pro-European and the sooner we embrace our neighbours, rather than remaining aloof, the better EXCEPT we need to stabilise our economy before we join.

A good maxim is never do anything important in life from a position of weakness.

 

[Man of Harveys]

If we didn't have a referendum. I would think there would be a spot of bother in this.

I would think so too, mainly due to nothing but a steady stream of risible anti-Europe xenophobia dressed up as economics having been pumped out by newspapers operating at the more moronic end of the market for many decades now.

But even that's not my main point: we HAVE a generally good government in place that works well. We don't just bypass it because some decisions might prove to be a bit awkward for politicians to take: that's their job, that's what they're meant and paid to do.

Abolishing the death penalty, legalising homosexuality, even joining the EU's predecessor: all done without referenda. I'd say they were pretty important issues too.

 

[The Large One]

Actually, what was the last referendum held in England about?

 

[coventrygull]

That would be the precise point of anyone who does decide to go that route. By then, it would probably be too late.

I don't remember the UK joining the EEC in 1973, nor the referendum in 1975 (too young - no, really). It was the Tories (Edward Heath) who took us in, and Labour (under Harold Wilson) who held the referendum. Perhaps someone on here could say whether it was felt the horse had already bolted by 1975.

I remember the 1975 referendum. I was a bit young but my parents were strongly against. I think big money and the media was on the side of the yes vote. Then again my parents were to the left of Stalin

 

[coventrygull]

I would think so too, mainly due to nothing but a steady stream of risible anti-Europe xenophobia dressed up as economics having been pumped out by newspapers operating at the more moronic end of the market for many decades now.

But even that's not my main point: we HAVE a generally good government in place that works well. We don't just bypass it because some decisions might prove to be a bit awkward for politicians to take: that's their job, that's what they're meant and paid to do.

Abolishing the death penalty, legalising homosexuality, even joining the EU's predecessor: all done without referenda. I'd say they were pretty important issues too.

Yes a lot of important decisions have been made without referendums and thats the reason why people are pissed of now.