[Football] Sam Morsy

[pigmanovich]

The issue with the 'opting in or out' / 'it's a personal choice' framing of this issue is that if your captain 'opts out' and you don't hand the armband to another player for that game you as a club have opted out as well - at which point it is more than fair to question your commitment as an organization to the cause. I don't know if Sam Morsy has any LGBT+ fans but Ipswich surely do and it would be insulting to them to reason "well, we couldn't have someone else captain the side, could we?" It happens at every club due to injury, is it so hard to have someone else step in for a game for reasons unrelated to player availability?

 

[Eeyore]

Good point.

Here's the thing. I grew up with an antipathy to the poppy phenomenon. I was 'persuaded' to give it another look largely by people on NSC. Two years ago I bought a BHA poppy badge. Last year I forgot. This year I bought one again. And I am happy to support the causes.

But when the likes of Alfredmizen stalked NSC, I was very uncomfortable with the strident attitude. Somehow I was a traitor for not Poppying.

Likewise, I'd feel irritated about being bullied into Rainbowing. But that's it. I'd feel irritated about being bullied. It isn't that I disapprove of Remembrance. It isn't that my religion teaches against Remembrance.

This footballer, like the one last year ats Sheffield United, doesn't feel feel bullied.

He intrinsically disapproves of homosexuality, because he imagines this is what Islam teaches. Very different narrative, and one that I deplore.

He is free to do it and I am free to boo him. Boo. BOO! Boo.

I think we are on the same page. I feel sorry for folk whose lives are bound up in ancient doctrine. Mainly because it's a permanent form of indoctrination- there is little learning through experience. That said, I suppose we are all products of our environment in some way. I'm just glad I don't see the world like him, and perhaps he me.

 

[Eeyore]

The issue with the 'opting in or out' / 'it's a personal choice' framing of this issue is that if your captain 'opts out' and you don't hand the armband to another player for that game you as a club have opted out as well - at which point it is more than fair to question your commitment as an organization to the cause. I don't know if Sam Morsy has any LGBT+ fans but Ipswich surely do and it would be insulting to them to reason "well, we couldn't have someone else captain the side, could we?" It happens at every club due to injury, is it so hard to have someone else step in for a game for reasons unrelated to player availability?

I would have thought that most LGBT+ Ipswich Town fans would just think that a sub set of his values are based in ignorance then go straight back to wondering where their next win is coming from.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's the same to me but I can only speak as an individual here. How others respond is not my remit. I support both the wearing of poppies and rainbow laces. But I don't support the chagrin of those who attack players etc for opting out. It's when these things aren't seen as an option that I start to feel uncomfortable.

To me this is a non story. He simply has an outdated religious belief which I feel sorry for him being enslaved to.

And I also feel that some of those having a go outwith here aren't the sort to hold a rainbow flag during Pride Week. Motivation has many layers.

I agree to an extent. But I think it’s quite reasonable to question/challenge his motives given his apparent acceptance of promoting gambling.

 

[pigmanovich]

I would have thought that most LGBT+ Ipswich Town fans would just think that a sub set of his values are based in ignorance then go straight back to wondering where their next win is coming from.

Well, if it happened here, I'd question the club's decision making too, possibly more so than the captain's - and not as someone "looking for a reason to take offence" but as a member of the LGBT+ community myself. Ipswich have pointed out how much else they're doing this month as part of the campaign but the reality is by not having anyone wear the rainbow armband on the pitch they'll have done less than the rest of the league.

 

[Eeyore]

I agree to an extent. But I think it’s quite reasonable to question/challenge his motives given his apparent acceptance of promoting gambling.

Of course. It's a good point.

 

[Eeyore]

Well, if it happened here, I'd question the club's decision making too, possibly more so than the captain's - and not as someone "looking for a reason to take offence" but as a member of the LGBT+ community myself. Ipswich have pointed out how much else they're doing this month as part of the campaign but the reality is by not having anyone wear the rainbow armband on the pitch they'll have done less than the rest of the league.

I would have thought having a different captain on the day would seem a good compromise. I feel sorry for Ipswich because this is a classic case of the culture clashes that cannot be avoided.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would have thought that most LGBT+ Ipswich Town fans would just think that a sub set of his values are based in ignorance then go straight back to wondering where their next win is coming from.

Put like that, accepting Sam’s ignorance is probably easier than wondering where their next win is coming from.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I'm not overly fussed what he does or doesn't do.

However, I'd be fascinated to know if his 'religious beliefs' stretch to recognising the Sabbath as a day of rest and worship and, therefore, what he does when his team has a game scheduled that day?

 

[pigmanovich]

I would have thought having a different captain on the day would seem a good compromise.

Well, yes, that’s what I’ve been arguing for

 

[Eeyore]

I'm not overly fussed what he does or doesn't do.

However, I'd be fascinated to know if his 'religious beliefs' stretch to recognising the Sabbath as a day of rest and worship and, therefore, what he does when his team has a game scheduled that day?

Isn't Friday the Islamic sabbath comparison ? I'm not up with these things.

The irony is that the 'sabbath' as I understand it, is actually Saturday and not Sunday. Not sure why it changed. Some kind expediency doubtless.

 

[A1X]

It always amazes me how the religious always find their beliefs to be Complete and Unshakeable when it comes to hating “the gays” but when it comes to other things then suddenly it’s all blurred lines and “well, actually…”

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Things like this bring to head liberal and islamic philosophy. The rights of people to have same sex relations should have primacy over Morsy’s right of religious belief to deny people those relationships, though he has right to hold them. Ipswich look weak. The EPL should strengthen guidance.

 

[pb21]

He was signed to play football and not to deliver cultural messages, however relevant and right they are (such as this).

Say that then, don't hide behind religion as an excuse.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Morsy said: “The beauty of football is that it brings people together with all races, religions. If we can help them come to football, come together and have at least one day together, then it can make a big difference.”

Beings people together….unless they’re poofs I guess.

 

[Eeyore]

It always amazes me how the religious always find their beliefs to be Complete and Unshakeable when it comes to hating “the gays” but when it comes to other things then suddenly it’s all blurred lines and “well, actually…”

It's a whole new subject that. Many will struggle to admit that their religion is nothing more than a cultural affiliation and less to do with faith itself. Thus practices and 'beliefs' are nothing more than tribal identity which is adulterated when it comes to the 'self'. Hypocrisy seemingly the most essential ingredient for best personal outcomes.

Football is a kind of snapshot for this. A talented shitehouser is a ****, unless he's playing for your team. In which case it is just high jinks.

I used to think that us English were the best at hypocrisy. Twas a lofty view, humankind in general has perfected it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not overly fussed what he does or doesn't do.

However, I'd be fascinated to know if his 'religious beliefs' stretch to recognising the Sabbath as a day of rest and worship and, therefore, what he does when his team has a game scheduled that day?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If he recognises the Sabbath he's a rum sort of Muslim.

Muslims have no sabbath. But they have a day of prayer on Friday called jumu'ah

If the bugger ever sets foot on a pitch on a Friday then all bets are off.

Apart from his bets, of course.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Being upset by some ones religeous beliefs is how wars start.
My belief is religion in this day and age is stupid and archaic and they should all be stoned....or at least tutted at

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Being upset by some ones religeous beliefs is how wars start.
My belief is religion in this day and age is stupid and archaic and they should all be stoned....or at least tutted at

Stoning them all does sound quite like starting a war, does it not, but as pointed out above, us English are good at hypocrisy