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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)







Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,892
Cumbria
At least it sounds as if Trump didn’t just bend over to Putin.
No. And you'd hope that Trump is annoyed with Putin for not agreeing in full to 'his' plan. It looks to me very much like Putin has agreed to the original plan put forward by Zelensky, before Trump got Ukraine to agree to more.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,948
Goldstone
Small concession to stop targeting energy Infrastructure on both sides but that isn’t going to stop the casualties.

Russia will have asked for this because Ukraine are causing them huge problems, while Russia are busy killing civilians. Russia have asked for it because it's good for them, and bad for Ukraine. So Ukraine should say no, it's a ceasefire with no conditions, or it's not a ceasefire.
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,318
Exactly... shopping centers, hospitals, individual citizens by drone in Kherson, all war crimes.
I want to see a list of Ukrainian demands.
Repatriation of the stolen children?

That should be demanded, repeatedly, ad nauseum, to Trump, so that the brutality of the Russians is inescapable for Trump and his transactional isolationists.
 






A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
22,029
Deepest, darkest Sussex




peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,845
Russia will have asked for this because Ukraine are causing them huge problems, while Russia are busy killing civilians. Russia have asked for it because it's good for them, and bad for Ukraine. So Ukraine should say no, it's a ceasefire with no conditions, or it's not a ceasefire.
Exactly this..... Ukrainian society is united. If Putin turns out the electrics, they'll struggle on with candles.

When Ukraine hits a refinery it affects the state coffers and Putins ability to bankroll his genocide

All or nothing.
 






raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,911
Wiltshire
Russia will have asked for this because Ukraine are causing them huge problems, while Russia are busy killing civilians. Russia have asked for it because it's good for them, and bad for Ukraine. So Ukraine should say no, it's a ceasefire with no conditions, or it's not a ceasefire.
Exactly, the usual Kremlin manipulation...which they are good at.
 










Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,318
I don't think the limited ceasefire has actually started yet?
The conclusion is the same. Russia is cramming in the attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure before the limited ceasefire begins.

Not really embracing both the letter and the spirit of the ceasefire is it?
 




peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
12,845
The conclusion is the same. Russia is cramming in the attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure before the limited ceasefire begins.

Not really embracing both the letter and the spirit of the ceasefire is it?
Well if that's the case, Ukraine should launch a huge barrage too
 






Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,318
Well if that's the case, Ukraine should launch a huge barrage too
There's an argument for Ukraine maintaining the high moral ground. I'm sure they have a long list of targets across Russia which would not break the ceasefire agreement.
They’ll just say. It wasn’t us
No doubt. Which is why a ceasefire is pointless. Russia will always approach it with zero integrity. Ukrainians will know this.

The only advantage of getting Russia to agree a ceasefire is to highlight their inability and unwillingness to keep to it. They can't be trusted. Whether Trump & Co will listen is another matter.
 






Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,408
What a load of tosh. Trump can’t admit that he’s failed with Putin. All he’s got is a limited ceasefire agreement - probably after begging Putin to at least give him something that he can present to the world as a success. And unless I missed it, Donald made no mention in his statement about the fate of the encircled Ukrainian soldiers that he was trying to save.
It p1sses me off immensely that he thinks everyone who listens to him and / or reads what he or his government says has the same level of Neanderthal intelligence as his MAGA followers. But it’s becoming increasingly obvious that he’s being played by Putin.
 


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