[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I think the UK did the right thing in WW2, and it led to our country being bombed and us losing something approaching a million people (might be well out there). With hindsight, do we think we should have just let Hitler get on with it and saved ourselves? Not for me Clive.

Just for info, total UK deaths (including colonies but not the dominions or India) during the Second world war were about 450,000 with a further ~350,000 military injured. That 450,000 equates to just under 1% of the 1939 population.

World War II casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Easy 10]

I'm not disagreeing with your thrust @Triggaar, you make a lot of salient points. I said earlier that we absolutely should stand up to Putin and back Ukraine, he cannot be allowed to ride roughshod over a sovereign nation, as we've all seen how that can escalate.

And I'm not saying that we are wrong to supply these Storm Shadow cruise missiles to Ukraine. I'm just venting my disquiet at these recent developments and what the consequences might involve, given who we're dealing with. I think Putin will see it as a direct affront, and I'm expecting a reaction. What form that will take remains to be seen.

 

[Triggaaar]

Watching this live:

 

[raymondo]

Not sure if this argument is staged, but a Russian guest appears less than happy about the killing of women and children

 

[raymondo]

My memory may be wrong here...it wouldn't be the first time: but, weren't Storm Shadows used many months ago for Ukrainian attacks (hits too) on the Kerch Bridge.
If so...what escalation?

 

[Triggaaar]

My memory may be wrong here...it wouldn't be the first time: but, weren't Storm Shadows used many months ago for Ukrainian attacks (hits too) on the Kerch Bridge.
If so...what escalation?

If they were (my memory is as bad as yours), that's simply an example of Russia accepting that annexed land isn't really Russian. Just like Russia said that annexed land would be defended with nuclear weapons, and then ignored their own rhetoric when said annexed lands were immediately attacked by Ukraine. In fact, thinking about it, those threats were well before Ukraine invaded land which really is Russian (Kursk) and Russia haven't even defended that with nukes. It just goes to show how empty Russian threats are.

 

[Eric the meek]

My memory may be wrong here...it wouldn't be the first time: but, weren't Storm Shadows used many months ago for Ukrainian attacks (hits too) on the Kerch Bridge.
If so...what escalation?

I don't know if storm shadows were used on the Kerch bridge. But, basing the definition of 'escalation' on using them inside Russia, it wouldn't have been an escalation, because the span of the is inside Ukraine.

Mind you, Putin makes up his own rules, so he probably claims the whole bridge is inside Russia anyway.

 

[crookie]

My memory may be wrong here...it wouldn't be the first time: but, weren't Storm Shadows used many months ago for Ukrainian attacks (hits too) on the Kerch Bridge.
If so...what escalation?

They were used in the attack on the Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol. Not sure about the bridge, wasn't that a truck bomb? Anyway, yeah hypocrisy from Putin as he claimed Crimea was Russian territory.

 

[Eric the meek]

Pre-match entertainment with Joe Blogs.

'Russian ruble collapsing'.

 

[portlock seagull]

I hope NATO declares war on Russia and kicks Putin out of Ukraine and Crimea at any cost, with full commitment of every armed service. Enough of this tyrant.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

I don't disagree with that reasoning. But you are assuming that Putin would see it the same way, when right now he is receiving British and American missiles inside Russian territory. Add in the fact that we don't really control exactly where Ukraine are lobbing them, and its an all-new tinderbox.

Sabre-rattling from the Kremlin is nothing new of course. But we've not been in this territory before.

Putin will claim all kinds of things but it's a bollocks distinction between using British and American weapons to kill Russians in Ukraine vs just across the border.

 

[raymondo]

Ok, there was this, another bridge, in Kherson region

Crimean bridge damaged in Ukrainian Storm Shadow strike, Russia says

Kyiv fired 12 long-range missiles at connecting points between mainland Ukraine and the annexed Crimean peninsula, a Russian-backed official said on Sunday.

search.app

 

[raymondo]

They were used in the attack on the Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol. Not sure about the bridge, wasn't that a truck bomb? Anyway, yeah hypocrisy from Putin as he claimed Crimea was Russian territory.

Your memory is working well: yes the HQ plus also submarine in dry dock I think.

Ukraine hits HQ of Russia's symbolic Black Sea navy - BBC News

The attack came as Ukraine's president made an unannounced visit to meet Canada's PM in Ottawa.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Eric the meek]

1 USD = 104.070 RUB

The Moscow exchange must be closed by now, so this is from trading elsewhere.

1 RUB to USD - Russian Rubles to US Dollars Exchange Rate

Get the latest 1 Russian Ruble to US Dollar rate for FREE with the original Universal Currency Converter. Set rate alerts for to and learn more about Russian Rubles and US Dollars from XE - the Currency Authority.

www.xe.com

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Putin is a sociopath, who has absolutely no qualms about drafting and sending in thousands of his civilians into the meat-grinder at the battlefront. I don't think he would differentiate between British / US missiles hitting military or civiilan targets inside Russia tbh - the fact is, Russian territory is now being struck by Western missiles.

I hope you're right, and he just considers it as all part of the deal when he decided on this jolly invasion. But he embarked on it due to what he saw as an increasing NATO creep onto his doorstep. Now that NATO are in effect blowing up stuff in Russia, I am not as confident as you that he won't react.

He didn’t start this because he was concerned about NATO encroachment. That was one of his excuses.

 

[raymondo]

I'm trying to figure out what point I'm trying to make.
Storm Shadows have been used on three occasions at least, some over a year ago:
- Black Sea fleet HQ (thanks @crookie )
- submarine plus something in dry dock in Crimea
- bridge in Kherson region
I'm sure there would have been some wordy reaction from Russia, but why the HUGE reaction this time
Is it because:
A) everything is up a couple of levels because of the US election and uncertainty (very high media engagement)? and US also gave permission for ATACMS?
B) is it because the latest hit was actually in Russia (rather than in claimed Russian territory?)
C) is it because the latest strike hit something bloody important (those bunkers), and some very important people inside who were key to Russia retaking Kursk by Jan 20th?

If this has already been heavily discussed and resolved above, just let me know

 

[Anger]

1 USD = 104.070 RUB

The Moscow exchange must be closed by now, so this is from trading elsewhere.

1 RUB to USD - Russian Rubles to US Dollars Exchange Rate

Get the latest 1 Russian Ruble to US Dollar rate for FREE with the original Universal Currency Converter. Set rate alerts for to and learn more about Russian Rubles and US Dollars from XE - the Currency Authority.

www.xe.com

Waste of a dollar to buy any of that junk. I’d rather buy some dust.

I’m with @portlock seagull, enough of this tyrant. Humanity has real challenges to address and there is no room for “Poo-tin” taking Europe backwards. The Russian people also only understand strength so all Western nations need to stand firm.

 

[Triggaaar]

Pre-match entertainment with Joe Blogs.

'Russian ruble collapsing'.

Putin is not going to be happy. Prepare yourselves for a ramping up of rhetoric and nuclear threats. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia start trying to look like they're preparing weapons.

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm trying to figure out what point I'm trying to make.
Storm Shadows have been used on three occasions at least, some over a year ago:
- Black Sea fleet HQ (thanks @crookie )
- submarine plus something in dry dock in Crimea
- bridge in Kherson region
I'm sure there would have been some wordy reaction from Russia, but why the HUGE reaction this time
Is it because:
A) everything is up a couple of levels because of the US election and uncertainty (very high media engagement)? and US also gave permission for ATACMS?
B) is it because the latest hit was actually in Russia (rather than in claimed Russian territory?)
C) is it because the latest strike hit something bloody important (those bunkers), and some very important people inside who were key to Russia retaking Kursk by Jan 20th?

If this has already been heavily discussed and resolved above, just let me know

d) is it because Storm Shadows are known as bunker-busters? Putin is planning ahead, anticipating that he may soon have to be presidential from his favourite bunker.

 

[sparkie]

Wonderful news.

Sue for peace, Vlad, while you still have an economy.