[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sirnormangall]

Putin was bullshitting entirely in his fake history lesson.

Putin lies. Who knew

Tucker Carlson interview: Fact-checking Putin's 'nonsense' history

Historians say the litany of claims made by the Russian president are nothing more than a selective abuse of history to justify the ongoing war in Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

I can’t really be bothered to look at this complete and utter bull of an interview . Not sure why Putin bothered to give the interview as anyone with half a brain won’t believe him. In my view it simply undermines any credibility that he had left. Apparently there would have been a peaceful solution yonks ago had not Boris J intervened to persuade Ukraine to continue the fight - yeah sure. Surprised Putin was apparently able to keep a straight face in this interview - most of the time. It’s laughable.

 

[driddles]

... anyone with half a brain won’t believe him. ...

Oh, you underestimate American Republicans

 

[Eric the meek]

Here's an introduction to Forces News - brief, concise and well-presented.

'Ukraine cutting Putin's war chest with attacks on Russian energy facilities'



This video is a 3 minute rundown of recent Ukrainian attacks on Russian oil and gas infrastructure, including one I missed - at Vladivostok.

 

[raymondo]

They are getting there, bit by bit, and will make one hell of a difference to how things look on the battle front. Hope the pilot training doesn't get rushed too much.

 

[raymondo]

Here's an introduction to Forces News - brief, concise and well-presented.

'Ukraine cutting Putin's war chest with attacks on Russian energy facilities'



This video is a 3 minute rundown of recent Ukrainian attacks on Russian oil and gas infrastructure, including one I missed - at Vladivostok.

Good summary video. Good to know that these attacks have directly impacted the cost of gasoline within Russia. Long may they continue.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Oh, you underestimate American Republicans

Not at all - I think most of them have less than half a brain

 

[raymondo]

Not at all - I think most of them have less than half a brain

They certainly have less than half the compassion, backbone, sincerity than most. Democratic politics seems to have become incredibly toxic in recent years (maybe it was always so and I'm just getting older ): US, UK, Australia...
It's just so counterproductive, energy sapping and probably dispiriting to any future generations that can be bothered to watch it .
(Sorry, rant over!)

 

[Triggaaar]

They certainly have less than half the compassion, backbone, sincerity than most. Democratic politics seems to have become incredibly toxic in recent years (maybe it was always so and I'm just getting older ): US, UK, Australia...

No, it didn't use to be like this. People like Trump wouldn't have got anywhere in the past, but the internet has allowed for anyone with an agenda to claim to be presenting news and facts, and easily fooled people lap it up.

 

[raymondo]

No, it didn't use to be like this. People like Trump wouldn't have got anywhere in the past, but the internet has allowed for anyone with an agenda to claim to be presenting news and facts, and easily fooled people lap it up.

You are right, I think: the age of the internet and social media has made an enormous change in politics.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

No, it didn't use to be like this. People like Trump wouldn't have got anywhere in the past, but the internet has allowed for anyone with an agenda to claim to be presenting news and facts, and easily fooled people lap it up.

Although a quick rattle through American history will throw up nonsense like Watergate, McCarthyism, and politicians on both sides making a speech to an audience in one state or city and then another totally contradicting it the next day somewhere else. Or people like Woodrow Wilson who make Trump seem committed to racial equality.

So no, not like this. But shit in an interesting variety of different ways.

 

[vegster]

You are right, I think: the age of the internet and social media has made an enormous change in politics.

Went to a pre book tour event in Lewes recently to hear Dom Joly, he has a book out called Conspiracy Tourist. Interesting talk, there is a certain " Kudos " that Conspiracy Theorists and MAGA supporters get that makes them feel special and blessed with inside information....he said there had been a falling out within the Flat Earth Society where there is a splinter group that thinks our Flat Earth is circular rather than square ! ...succinctly he said " Every village used to have its idiot, unfortunately thanks to the Internet, they are now talking to each other ".

 

[GT49er]

Although a quick rattle through American history will throw up nonsense like Watergate, McCarthyism, and politicians on both sides making a speech to an audience in one state or city and then another totally contradicting it the next day somewhere else. Or people like Woodrow Wilson who make Trump seem committed to racial equality.

So no, not like this. But shit in an interesting variety of different ways.

Again, the idiocy of applying 21st. century judgements on people who were around 100-150 years ago, or more. Woodrow Wilson's ideas on race, whatever they were, would have been shared by pretty much everybody else. He probably never considered legalising homosexuality either, so he was obviously a vicious homophobe and should be vilified for it. And a woman's place was in the home, bringing up the children and supporting her husband - so obviously all males were sexists and therefore despicable.
Stupid, isn't it - they were just ordinary people, living in the world as it was at the time, but no, some people simply can't avoid judging the common man of years past by the social and moral standards which are current today, but weren't then.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Again, the idiocy of applying 21st. century judgements on people who were around 100-150 years ago, or more. Woodrow Wilson's ideas on race, whatever they were, would have been shared by pretty much everybody else. He probably never considered legalising homosexuality either, so he was obviously a vicious homophobe and should be vilified for it. And a woman's place was in the home, bringing up the children and supporting her husband - so obviously all males were sexists and therefore despicable.
Stupid, isn't it - they were just ordinary people, living in the world as it was at the time, but no, some people simply can't avoid judging the common man of years past by the social and moral standards which are current today, but weren't then.

Have you ever actually read anything about Wilson's policies regarding race and how they compared to his predecessors?

Edit: this is well off topic, for which I apologise to everybody. I'll leave it there unless anybody wants to quote that on a more appropriate thread. My point, for what it's worth, is that there have been plenty of presidents and politicians who have made things worse in America and the world one way or another over the years. We're not uniquely blessed to live in an age of shits, liers and hypocrites.

 

[GT49er]

Have you ever actually read anything about Wilson's policies regarding race and how they compared to his predecessors?

Edit: this is well off topic, for which I apologise to everybody. I'll leave it there unless anybody wants to quote that on a more appropriate thread.

I'll leave it there too. Wrong thread on which to express my annoyance.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Russians are going to put billions into getting Trump elected again aren’t they……

Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

The US presidential hopeful says he would not protect any country failing to pay its bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[peterward]

No, it didn't use to be like this. People like Trump wouldn't have got anywhere in the past, but the internet has allowed for anyone with an agenda to claim to be presenting news and facts, and easily fooled people lap it up.

100% right and it's a lot more cynical than we'll ever truly know.

Large groups of data analysts and polling will know exactly the types of trigger issues for those that would vote for someone like Trump and the probable lack of any discernment to truly investigate tropes/articles that fit their pre conceived world views.

Then highly targeted ads, half truth narratives and outright misinformation will hook them.

 

[peterward]

Good and to the point short X thread.

People need to wake up very quickly

 

[Eric the meek]

The Russians are going to put billions into getting Trump elected again aren’t they……

Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

The US presidential hopeful says he would not protect any country failing to pay its bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apologies if it has already been mentioned, but right at the bottom of that article, is a little bit of good news:

'However, Republicans in Congress have since the turn of the year blocked all new funding - demanding tough measures to restrict migration into the US on its southern border, and then refusing the amended bill when it was presented earlier this week.
Mr Trump celebrated that rejection during Saturday's rally, saying the proposals made by President Biden had been "disastrous".
The two issues have now been successfully separated, meaning that senators are now able to debate the aid money separately.'

Senate advances aid package for Ukraine and Israel

The Senate will begin to consider a $95b package that does not include border security measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[peterward]

lol unlike this thread you mean

It doesn’t really say more than has been said numerous times and there are far more informative posts than this but it says it very eloquently doesn’t it. However, there’s already over 6 million Ukraine refugees and most have been very welcomed, particularly by Poland but I’m not sure the ‘threat’ of another 35 million refugees in Europe is going to convince the US or UK to part with any more weapons than they are already doing - they will just allow Countries bordering Ukraine to bear the brunt of accommodating a mass exodus of Ukrainian refugees as they are already.

Perhaps a stronger incentive than the ‘threat’ of refugees crossing over the border ( let’s also not forget there are already 3.7 million internally displaced people in Ukraine) would be how easy it would be for Russia to next invade Moldova and Georgia if Ukraine was occupied and how NATO will not tolerate a line of Russian military installations and deployment along the entire Western Ukraine border with NATO. The whole world should hope to God that that doesn’t happen.

I actually thought that was Implied.

Not.so much an immigration issue, but a non preparedness of Europe issue.

That plus Russias obvious belligerence and determination to destroy both NATO and EU.

That was the wake up call referred to, even though I agree, most can see this clearly.

Scholz is an absolute disaster of dithering and cowardice who cannot see this as it is, nor have the ability to offer any meaningful counter.

 

[cjd]

No, it didn't use to be like this. People like Trump wouldn't have got anywhere in the past, but the internet has allowed for anyone with an agenda to claim to be presenting news and facts, and easily fooled people lap it up.

How right you are.

Thread after thread after thread of tens of thousands of words by just ONE individual poster can change whole opinions with ..'facts' and 'figures'.

Nauseating.