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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)









Poojah

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2010
1,881
Leeds
Some pretty grim comments from Biden in this BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63167947

In particular, these quotes:

"For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, we have a direct threat to the use of nuclear weapons, if in fact things continue down the path they'd been going," Mr Biden told fellow Democrats.

"We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis."

So if, in effect, things continuing to go wrong for Putin and Russia raises the spectre of nuclear war, what’s the alternative? I think we can all agree that it is not Russian victory, or even Ukrainian concession, so just what is this “off ramp” that is mentioned now and again?
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,839
Brighton
Some pretty grim comments from Biden in this BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63167947

In particular, these quotes:

"For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, we have a direct threat to the use of nuclear weapons, if in fact things continue down the path they'd been going," Mr Biden told fellow Democrats.

"We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis."

So if, in effect, things continuing to go wrong for Putin and Russia raises the spectre of nuclear war, what’s the alternative? I think we can all agree that it is not Russian victory, or even Ukrainian concession, so just what is this “off ramp” that is mentioned now and again?

I’d be a bit cautious about Biden comms at present.

With the midterms coming up in a month, the democrats have an anti-Trump narrative of ‘strong’, ‘lawful’, ‘constitutional’, ‘united’ and ‘stable’ governance to get out. Mentioning the risk of nuclear weapons could be seen as a way of getting Americans to vote for the democrats so that there is a strong government that can get (military) things done rather than following the Trump inspired anti-establishment theme the Republicans still seem to be caught up in with the shadow of that horrific ***t still well and truly over them.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2016
26,417
West is BEST
Some pretty grim comments from Biden in this BBC report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63167947

In particular, these quotes:

"For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, we have a direct threat to the use of nuclear weapons, if in fact things continue down the path they'd been going," Mr Biden told fellow Democrats.

"We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis."

So if, in effect, things continuing to go wrong for Putin and Russia raises the spectre of nuclear war, what’s the alternative? I think we can all agree that it is not Russian victory, or even Ukrainian concession, so just what is this “off ramp” that is mentioned now and again?

It’s the same old stuff they trot out. It basically means they have no idea what is going to happen.

As for Biden. Didn’t fret. He’s not saying anything we haven’t known for months; Putin might use nuclear weapons, it would be catastrophic.
 




Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
The Nuclear option is only an option they think it will force any kind of concession. They need to be left in no doubt that it would only make it worse for Russia.
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,467
The Nuclear option is only an option they think it will force any kind of concession. They need to be left in no doubt that it would only make it worse for Russia.

I'm pretty sure I read that the Americans have done just that in a private message to Putin.

I remember reading that in the Iraqi war, the US phoned up the Iraqi generals - in their own homes. I imagine that would be a bit unnerving.
 






sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
13,324
Hove
The Nuclear option is only an option they think it will force any kind of concession. They need to be left in no doubt that it would only make it worse for Russia.
This is it.

He is telling Putin that using nuclear weapons only ends in a worse situation for Putin. It isn't the wonder weapon to end the war in Russian victory.
 








Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,624
Goldstone
I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.
I recall from reading your posts that you're convinced this will end with nuclear war. The article says that's very unlikely. I thought perhaps you'd take some positives from it.
 


Actually, there would be if they knew that a general was at that person's house! Now that would - really - scare the **** out of the general !

Thanks for inadvertently making that valid point. Much appreciated.

Flood them all with double glazing and "survey" calls - job done :)
 


rigton70

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
978
I still think putin will go nuclear if he thinks he is going to die

He seems a selfish wanker if he goes he will take the world with him.

It’s up to whoever pushes that button and if they believe putin agenda unfortunately
 




Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
26,352
Heroic Russia now playing the victim, with no sense of irony...

'Head of RT claims the West wants to colonize and enslave Russia'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqMe7Cg2iOM

'We offered them peace, just to leave us alone'.

Apart from some gross exaggerations and not a little homophobia that was an interesting take. America has been involved in a new form of colonisation for a long time.

The New American Century Project is no secret and has never been denied, it's original architects being found in many positions of power in the Bush administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Whilst we all condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the West is not helping out because of some selfless righteousness.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
I still think putin will go nuclear if he thinks he is going to die

He seems a selfish wanker if he goes he will take the world with him.

It’s up to whoever pushes that button and if they believe putin agenda unfortunately

It isn’t up to one person, thankfully. I gave the example of the Russian submarine off the coast of Cuba in 1962, a couple of weeks ago.
The order to fire a missile came through, but it needed the agreement of three Russian Naval officers. One disagreed, and the missile wasn’t fired.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,839
Brighton
I still think putin will go nuclear if he thinks he is going to die

He seems a selfish wanker if he goes he will take the world with him.

It’s up to whoever pushes that button and if they believe putin agenda unfortunately

It was interesting watching listening to some experts on Newsnight about the Nuclear question.

It seems that opposition to Putin is getting vocal at a high level and that there is thinking and positioning around life without him. He is a very paranoid man. He may be needing all that paranoia soon to keep himself safe.

In addition, China and India were mentioned. These two countries are getting very worried and are slowly becoming more critical of Russia rather than looking the other way.

It seems that Russia won’t be ready for a counter offensive until the Spring. Putin might not have much of the Ukraine annexed by that point. I hope the tactic of retreat & Nuke is not used.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Kerch bridge has been blown up. It’s not entirely clear which side did it, but that is Russia’s link to the Crimea.
 






Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,839
Brighton
Kerch bridge has been blown up. It’s not entirely clear which side did it, but that is Russia’s link to the Crimea.

Sounds very much like the Russians. They are cutting off a retreat/escape route for their Army as Ukrainian forces are putting the Kherson region under increased pressure. Apparently a fuel tank on a train has caught fire on the bridge. Sounds exactly like Russian sabotage to me.
 


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