Insel affe
HellBilly
That is what some would call an exit strategy
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
That is what some would call an exit strategy
The Clamp
Well-known member
I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.
Some pretty grim comments from Biden in this BBC report:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63167947
In particular, these quotes:
"For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, we have a direct threat to the use of nuclear weapons, if in fact things continue down the path they'd been going," Mr Biden told fellow Democrats.
"We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis."
So if, in effect, things continuing to go wrong for Putin and Russia raises the spectre of nuclear war, what’s the alternative? I think we can all agree that it is not Russian victory, or even Ukrainian concession, so just what is this “off ramp” that is mentioned now and again?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63167947
In particular, these quotes:
"For the first time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, we have a direct threat to the use of nuclear weapons, if in fact things continue down the path they'd been going," Mr Biden told fellow Democrats.
"We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis."
So if, in effect, things continuing to go wrong for Putin and Russia raises the spectre of nuclear war, what’s the alternative? I think we can all agree that it is not Russian victory, or even Ukrainian concession, so just what is this “off ramp” that is mentioned now and again?
I’d be a bit cautious about Biden comms at present.
With the midterms coming up in a month, the democrats have an anti-Trump narrative of ‘strong’, ‘lawful’, ‘constitutional’, ‘united’ and ‘stable’ governance to get out. Mentioning the risk of nuclear weapons could be seen as a way of getting Americans to vote for the democrats so that there is a strong government that can get (military) things done rather than following the Trump inspired anti-establishment theme the Republicans still seem to be caught up in with the shadow of that horrific ***t still well and truly over them.
The Clamp
Well-known member
It’s the same old stuff they trot out. It basically means they have no idea what is going to happen.
As for Biden. Didn’t fret. He’s not saying anything we haven’t known for months; Putin might use nuclear weapons, it would be catastrophic.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
The Nuclear option is only an option they think it will force any kind of concession. They need to be left in no doubt that it would only make it worse for Russia.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,477
I'm pretty sure I read that the Americans have done just that in a private message to Putin.
I remember reading that in the Iraqi war, the US phoned up the Iraqi generals - in their own homes. I imagine that would be a bit unnerving.
There wouldn't be much point trying to phone them at somebody else's house.
This is it.
He is telling Putin that using nuclear weapons only ends in a worse situation for Putin. It isn't the wonder weapon to end the war in Russian victory.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,477
Actually, there would be if they knew that a general was at that person's house! Now that would - really - scare the **** out of the general !
Thanks for inadvertently making that valid point. Much appreciated.
I recall from reading your posts that you're convinced this will end with nuclear war. The article says that's very unlikely. I thought perhaps you'd take some positives from it.
Norman Potting
Well-known member
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,363
Apart from some gross exaggerations and not a little homophobia that was an interesting take. America has been involved in a new form of colonisation for a long time.
The New American Century Project is no secret and has never been denied, it's original architects being found in many positions of power in the Bush administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
Whilst we all condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the West is not helping out because of some selfless righteousness.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It isn’t up to one person, thankfully. I gave the example of the Russian submarine off the coast of Cuba in 1962, a couple of weeks ago.
The order to fire a missile came through, but it needed the agreement of three Russian Naval officers. One disagreed, and the missile wasn’t fired.
It was interesting watching listening to some experts on Newsnight about the Nuclear question.
It seems that opposition to Putin is getting vocal at a high level and that there is thinking and positioning around life without him. He is a very paranoid man. He may be needing all that paranoia soon to keep himself safe.
In addition, China and India were mentioned. These two countries are getting very worried and are slowly becoming more critical of Russia rather than looking the other way.
It seems that Russia won’t be ready for a counter offensive until the Spring. Putin might not have much of the Ukraine annexed by that point. I hope the tactic of retreat & Nuke is not used.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Kerch bridge has been blown up. It’s not entirely clear which side did it, but that is Russia’s link to the Crimea.
Sounds very much like the Russians. They are cutting off a retreat/escape route for their Army as Ukrainian forces are putting the Kherson region under increased pressure. Apparently a fuel tank on a train has caught fire on the bridge. Sounds exactly like Russian sabotage to me.