[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Weststander]

Not impressed with the response from UK and USA on this.

At what point do we do anything?

It looks to me like we will do nothing (having said we would do nothing).

Putin has won, has he not?

Putin is thick and mad, envious of the west, he’d have no hesitation in launching the first nuke at people since Nagasaki.

Ukraine hasn’t got the protection of NATO.

The rest of the world is doing almost everything possible to destroy Russia financially/economically, and by other means. The effects will take time. Russia/Belorus will systematically be destroyed into a poor, pariah state, Putin won’t be able to bankroll the war machine and a functioning economy in the medium term.

The rewards for a colossal land grab and genocide, at the price of sending Russia/Belorus back decades and being ostracised by everyone except Syria, Iran, North Korea and a half-hearted relationship from China.

 

[Eric the meek]

A sobering read:

'When will Putin’s army run out of money? Not fast enough to save Ukraine.'

https://fortune.com/2022/03/03/when...ns-ukraine-foreign-exchange-reserves-oil-gas/

 

[Goldstone1976]

Millions - and as a socialist I utterly condemn the actions of the Stalinist regime.

Now -

will you join me in condemning the atrocities committed my Winston Churchill when he used poison gas on Kurds and Afghans in 1919 and when he ordered British troops supporting the White counter-revolution in Russia to drop poison gas bombs on peasnat villages supporting the Bolsheviks during the Russian Civil War ?

will you join with me in condemning the murder of innocent civilians, facilitated by the gvovernment of Ted Heath, by British troops in Ballymurphy in Belfast in August 1971 and in Derry on Bloody Sunday in January 1972?

Sorry - constant whataboutery. Thread ban issued.

 

[Insel affe]

Sorry - constant whataboutery. Thread ban issued.

Sorry, I think a thread ban is similar to given a multimillionaire a ten pound fine, when you consider his reserve in anti English propaganda.

 

[beorhthelm]

When will Putin’s army run out of money? Not fast enough to save Ukraine.

https://fortune.com/2022/03/03/when...ns-ukraine-foreign-exchange-reserves-oil-gas/

sanctions wont cut much mustard until the oil/gas trade is cut off. maybe that'll happen in the spring for a few months.

 

[Creaky]

https://fortune.com/2022/03/03/when...ns-ukraine-foreign-exchange-reserves-oil-gas/

sanctions wont cut much mustard until the oil/gas trade is cut off. maybe that'll happen in the spring for a few months.

Unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen. Was listening to Radio 4 this evening and some “expert”, (didn’t catch his name), gave a pretty good explanation why not.

The EU, UK and other countries may well not buy oil and gas from Russia, (sanctions), but they will need to buy them from somewhere. The obvious source will be from the Gulf States - that however will mean a shortage for China who will then probably buy from Russia.

We can sanction oil and gas as much as we like but the simple truth is that the Western nations cannot reduce their demand for oil and gas in the short term.

 

[Weststander]

Sorry - constant whataboutery. Thread ban issued.

Thank fck.

A couple of deviant posters using the murder of Ukrainians in real time, to peddle their geopolitics or anti-British view of world history or conspiracy bollocks from internet ‘research’

 

[Weststander]

Unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen. Was listening to Radio 4 this evening and some “expert”, (didn’t catch his name), gave a pretty good explanation why not.

The EU, UK and other countries may well not buy oil and gas from Russia, (sanctions), but they will need to buy them from somewhere. The obvious source will be from the Gulf States - that however will mean a shortage for China who will then probably buy from Russia.

We can sanction oil and gas as much as we like but the simple truth is that the Western nations cannot reduce their demand for oil and gas in the short term.

The West are blocking Russia’s access to $0.63trillion of reserves held in the West, that’s 87% of its reserves.

After the illegal invasion, murder and theft of Crimea, Putin thought it clever before starting the next war, to stockpile their reserves in western currencies and gold overseas.

 

[The Fits]

A fire at the nuclear plant. Great.

 

[clapham_gull]

Thank fck.

A couple of deviant posters using the murder of Ukrainians in real time, to peddle their geopolitics or anti-British view of world history or conspiracy bollocks from internet ‘research’

I actually agree with a lot of what he says, but there is a time and a place. Bit like having an argument with a relative in hospital or something like that.

Humanity first, ideology and history lessons later. A young child being passed over to crowds to be put onto a train isn't interested in the undeniable mistakes and sometimes dodgy views of Churchill.

.. and neither should they be.

 

[peterward]

A fire at the nuclear plant. Great.

It could miles worse than Chernobyl they said.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Putin is thick and mad, envious of the west, he’d have no hesitation in launching the first nuke at people since Nagasaki.

Ukraine hasn’t got the protection of NATO.

The rest of the world is doing almost everything possible to destroy Russia financially/economically, and by other means. The effects will take time. Russia/Belorus will systematically be destroyed into a poor, pariah state, Putin won’t be able to bankroll the war machine and a functioning economy in the medium term.

The rewards for a colossal land grab and genocide, at the price of sending Russia/Belorus back decades and being ostracised by everyone except Syria, Iran, North Korea and a half-hearted relationship from China.

The question for me is do we stick (and do the nothing we declared we would do, militarily, before the invasion - that was reassuringly robust) or twist (and nuke Moscow; yes, I know, but would flinging soft shell crabs via trebuchet at the vestige of the Berlin wall have the same oomph?).

I'd back 'stick'... were it not for the pre-emptive declaration of non-engagement. The latter is a signal to Putin to do what he likes.

Freezing Russia's JustEat facility, and Putin's Grinder account may cause momentary inconwenience, as Kenneth Williams might have said but, hey, ho, when you have just flattened a neighbour, ethnic cleansed its population and shown Europe what a badass motherfugger you are, who cares, innit?

 

[Eeyore]

Oh, great. That's all Europe needs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The West are blocking Russia’s access to $0.63trillion of reserves held in the West, that’s 87% of its reserves.

After the illegal invasion, murder and theft of Crimea, Putin thought it clever before starting the next war, to stockpile their reserves in western currencies and gold overseas.

I really hope you're right, and Putin has put all his nation's gold in a boat that is in a now inaccessible sea. No more money to....

But when he has nothing left but nuclear weapons, what do you think he will do? Say 'OK mate, it's a fair cop, you done me, bang to rights, I'll go quietly, guv', or 'You'll never take me alive!'

This is why I feel we should strike first.

And let no man call me a liberal. I ain't.

 

[Weststander]

I actually agree with a lot of what he says, but there is a time and a place. Bit like having an argument with a relative in hospital or something like that.

Humanity first, ideology and history lessons later. A young child being passed over to crowds to be put onto a train isn't interested in the undeniable mistakes and sometimes dodgy views of Churchill.

.. and neither should they be.

Regarding Russia, I’m mindful of old school UK (& Irish) marxists or similar having a bizarre affection for this Russia. Labour Party figures have discussed it in recent times. A mental block where they’re unable to throw off their old affection, plus an element of the US’s enemy is my friend. Corbyn and mates found it really, really hard to criticise Putin.

Bizarre really, Putin’s a fascist warmonger, part of a wealthy elite and overseeing a capitalist economy.

 

[Weststander]

I really hope you're right, and Putin has put all his nation's gold in a boat that is in a now inaccessible sea. No more money to....

But when he has nothing left but nuclear weapons, what do you think he will do? Say 'OK mate, it's a fair cop, you done me, bang to rights, I'll go quietly, guv', or 'You'll never take me alive!'

This is why I feel we should strike first.

And let no man call me a liberal. I ain't.

I expect more events like that in Salisbury. Plus cyber warfare to screw our banking for example.

He deems human life worthless.

The world didn’t know it when he became PM and later President, that it had a Hitler in the making.

 

[clapham_gull]

Regarding Russia, I’m mindful of old school UK (& Irish) marxists or similar having a bizarre affection for this Russia. Labour Party figures have discussed it in recent times. A mental block where they’re unable to throw off their old affection, plus an element of the US’s enemy is my friend. Corbyn and mates found it really, really hard to criticise Putin.

Bizarre really, Putin’s a fascist warmonger, part of a wealthy elite and overseeing a capitalist economy.

Well, in my teens I visited the arse end of communist Poland. I won't bore you with the details but there I was.

I also visited a few months later when the commies had disappeared. Still bonkers, but already there were some very dubious figures taking advantage. The Polish version of the "Oligarch" was a bit different though. The one I met was thick as mince. He'd made a few bob from a ball point pen factory, his wife had implants and those who knew them took the piss.

Didn't change me ideologically, I was always on a path to being an urban yoghurt knitting liberal.

But it was clear to me even back then that underneath the hood, the people of Poland were European, "Conservative", quite nationalistic and a deeply religious nation. They also universally despised what Communism had done to their country. They weren't like that because of post USSR Western interference, they just were and very much so.

That's what really bites with these old school UK Marxists, their "comrades" were actually the sort of people they would avoid at home.

Now that's funny.

The USSR is something I really don't understand. I have to defer to my learned Czech friends who I find far more pragmatic than the Poles and less constrained by religious dogma. They tell me that the country has been cut off from the rest or Europe for so long (and never really understood any form of democracy) they are very capable of making up their own or believing someone else's.

I met a number of lovely Russians who agree.

 

[Weststander]

 

[Weststander]

Well, in my teens I visited the arse end of communist Poland. I won't bore you with the details but there I was.

I also visited a just a few months later when the commies had disappeared. Still bonkers, but already there were some very dubious figures taking advantage.

Didn't change me ideologically, I was always on a path to being an urban yoghurt knitting liberal.

But it was clear to me even back then that underneath the hood, the people of Poland were European, "Conservative" and a deeply religious nation. They also despised what Communism had done to their country.

To somehow suggest they were made that way because of post USSR imposed Western mistakes is laughable.

The USSR is something I really don't understand. I have to defer to my learned Czech friends who I find far more pragmatic than the Poles and less constrained by religious dogma. They tell me that the country has been cut off from the rest or Europe for so long (and never really understood any form of democracy) they are very capable of making up their own or believing someone else's.

[No matter what time of the night I post, you always post later . Respect to your night owl capabilities].

The spirit of the Polish people is incredible. Crushed between two aggressive and larger neighbours for centuries, invaded, raped, pillaged, unspeakable warcrimes carried out against its people between 1939 and 1989.

I’d always assumed that the strength of their RC faith and the brave church itself (unlike the Vatican under Mussolini) was key.

Always an ally of the UK too and many served as RAF pilots in WW2, all in all making me hugely respect the Poles who made Britain their home since freedom of movement. Still 700k apparently.

 

[GT49er]

Some of you have apparantly been posting messages of truth as reviews on google maps - an excellent idea. Someone even posted 'instructions' on NSC how to do it. However, such instruction were of no more use to me than a foreign language like 'clear your cache' or 'switch off your VPN'. Might as well be Chinese!

So, for a bit of practical help in spreading the truth to Russians using MacDonalds, can somebody set out simple instructions to set up a new (anonymous) Google account? Thank you.