[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Icy Gull]

Regardless of its intent, it’s still a chilling headline to read.

And I believe his ego if damaged irreparably could well result in a nuclear war. Someone who is quite probably prepared to see his country nuked too. Let me be very wrong, as you know I often am.

 

[Yoda]

“When you die, would you rather be forgotten or hatefully remembered?”

I wonder how Vladimir Putin would answer that question. He is nearly 70, and his time for writing his name firmly into history is running out. For all the terrible things you can say about Adolf Hitler, he remains as famous as anyone alive today, almost 80 years after his death. There isn’t a child over the age of 7 in the developed world who doesn’t know his name or image.

I definitely harbour concerns that there is an element of loose cannon about Putin right now. If things don’t go his way and he becomes embarrassed by events, how spiteful might his response be? I wouldn’t necessarily bank on his behaviour following conventional logic, or him limiting his response to conventional weapons.

Exactly this, the man is still bitter about the fall of the USSR and wanted to be the man who resurrected the Soviet Union. It's become a personal bug in the back of his mind, making him more and more unhinged with reality.

 

[swindonseagull]

Breaking on the News ticker too. Putin orders Nuclear forces to state of readiness after NATO statements.

Its bluster. I dont believe it, its simply upping the ante

Im pretty sure all Nuclear forces around the globe are always 'at a state of readiness' at least they were when I was in the RAF.

 

[Solid at the back]

Do you think Putin cares about his own children?

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Anyone tempted to go and fight? Foreign Secretary has given her backing to those who want to.

 

[birthofanorange]

And I believe his ego if damaged irreparably could well result in a nuclear war. Someone who is quite probably prepared to see his country nuked too. Let me be very wrong, as you know I often am.

I think you're right, but I so hope you're wrong.
He's being pushed into a corner and his response to that could well be catastrophic for every person on the planet.
I'm genuinely worried.

 

[swindonseagull]

Exactly this, the man is still bitter about the fall of the USSR and wanted to be the man who resurrected the Soviet Union. It's become a personal bug in the back of his mind, making him more and more unhinged with reality.

I would like to think that some countries SF will have Putin in their sights.

 

[The Wizard]

I’m not convinced this resistance Ukraine are putting up will help in the long run, as heroic as it is I can only imagine how mad Putins mind may go if he doesn’t succeed pronto with his bizarre intentions, could cause him to press the big red button so to speak.

He has always been a loose cannon but now he appears to have lost all sensibility, wouldn’t rule anything out which is mildly concerning.

I’d be interested to know whether the Russian people and particularly the Russian troops really see this as a ‘war’ worth fighting for, it’s hard to imagine any level headed human being could basically murder innocent civilians with no cause of provocation.

 

[peterward]

Just heard on radio 5 that removing Russia from Swift is not such a big deal (according to a Finance systems expert) as Swift is only the telecom's part. He says the only way to stop the transfers is to follow the money and freeze the accounts at each end. ��WTF??

It means that they could still transfer payments by thing like the old school telex sytem, but its slow and most companies wont deal with it, so it is powerful.

Bigger though is sanctions on the Russian Central bank and their ability to liquidate any of the 600 billion rainy day, sanctions proofing money they built up to prop up their markets. They'll have to have an artificial peg on the rouble.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The location is still utter madness.

What is wrong with eg. Geneva ?

Do you think Putin will set foot outside of Russia?


In the meantime, this gob smacking video has been released. The problem is, do we believe this or the earlier video where he called Putin smart and our leaders dumb? Take your pick.

[tweet]1497741379891564544[/tweet]

[tweet]1497733342086647809[/tweet]

 

[amexer]

Utterly shameful for the showboating West to abandon the brave Ukrainian people to their fate, just bunging them a few weapons to try and assuage their shameful abandonment of Ukraine

Would still be interested to know from TomHark what he thinks West should do

 

[portlock seagull]

Im pretty sure all Nuclear forces around the globe are always 'at a state of readiness' at least they were when I was in the RAF.

Interesting. Did USSR or NATO tell each other this as a veiled threat during any proxy wars? My understanding is that it makes escalating to launch them easier so it’s a worrying development. We’ve had 70 years now to believe mutual destruction means neither side would really ever dare to but if Hitler in his dying days had access to them despite certain defeat he’d have 100% used them. Is Putin crazy enough? I believe so. Like you I grew up under the threat of a mushroom cloud and this latest announcement is a step beyond anything we experienced then. A significant moment, we all believe he won’t. But what if he did?

 

[peterward]

I’m not convinced this resistance Ukraine are putting up will help in the long run, as heroic as it is I can only imagine how mad Putins mind may go if he doesn’t succeed pronto with his bizarre intentions, could cause him to press the big red button so to speak.

He has always been a loose cannon but now he appears to have lost all sensibility, wouldn’t rule anything out which is mildly concerning.

I’d be interested to know whether the Russian people and particularly the Russian troops really see this as a ‘war’ worth fighting for,

If you dont learn the lessons from history you are bound to repeat them.

So what is your suggesion, Sack off the destruction, death of civilians, and the blood shed by Putins venture and just hand it over?

If you suggest Ukrainian should or will back off you dont have the first clue about these people.

They're not like us western liberals, much tougher stock, very proud and patriotic people. They will never accept Putinism or hand over their chance of freedom nor should they.

Putin isnt going to use Nuclear bomb imho, hes paranoid of death. He sits 15 metres from others, he spends much of his time in a bunker.

If the Ukrainians capitualted, or if this was not fought now, it will 100% be fought later with all the exact same threats, destruction with an emboldened Putin.

Even if he signs a peace deal, he wont truly commit to it, he'll go away pissed off and work out how he can come back and have another go another time.

Any neutrality, if Ukraine agrees, must be on the basis that if Ukraine is ever attacked again, NATO will be allowed to come to their defence, or they have a special status of none article 5 NATO member, with no NATO bases or troops. If you want to give the Russians an off ramp. You could sign a deal where Ukraine is neutral but if Russia ever attacks, NATO on Ukraines request can intervene, and if NATO attacks (of course they wouldnt) Ukraine can request Russia to intervene (and of course they wont). But it could be sold by Putin

They have every right to arm and so they absolutely should arm. They can sign a new non agression pact, but they need the arbiter of that to be Ukraines Military with extra fall back if Russia renege

 

[Eeyore]

'How will you stop tank advances ?'

'Our old men will just simply go and have a little chat with them'.

[tweet]1497843820091871235[/tweet]

 

[peterward]

Anyone tempted to go and fight? Foreign Secretary has given her backing to those who want to.

Like I said earlier, it may be just a genuine heartfelt plea by Zelenskiy to ask for help to fight from all peoples. It may also be co-ordinated covertly with other western powers, so active military serviceman can circumvent representating NATO or their country to still go and fight.

We could covertly give a load of SAS and marines a couple of weeks off paid leave, and suggest Ukraine might be a nice place to visit as a tourist!

 

[pb21]

I’m not convinced this resistance Ukraine are putting up will help in the long run as heroic as it is...

The only other option is to bend over though, and that won't help in the long run either.

 

[Eeyore]

Do you think Putin will set foot outside of Russia?


In the meantime, this gob smacking video has been released. The problem is, do we believe this or the earlier video where he called Putin smart and our leaders dumb? Take your pick.

[tweet]1497741379891564544[/tweet]

[tweet]1497733342086647809[/tweet]

Very sad when you reach the stage where anything less of him cannot be considered.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Do you think Putin cares about his own children?

Most probably not but those around him will be. Would they want there family to die because of the rankings of one man. I think not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Poojah]

I’m not convinced this resistance Ukraine are putting up will help in the long run, as heroic as it is I can only imagine how mad Putins mind may go if he doesn’t succeed pronto with his bizarre intentions, could cause him to press the big red button so to speak.

He has always been a loose cannon but now he appears to have lost all sensibility, wouldn’t rule anything out which is mildly concerning.

I’d be interested to know whether the Russian people and particularly the Russian troops really see this as a ‘war’ worth fighting for, it’s hard to imagine any level headed human being could basically murder innocent civilians with no cause of provocation.

Regrettably, I agree with this. As horrific as it would be for Ukraine, Russia gaining control of the country with minimal humiliation is probably in the world’s best interests. Anything which frustrates Putin cranks up the ire and increases the chances of serious wider conflict.

I also wonder how helpful protestations from the Russian people might be in the long run. The more they píss him off, the less concerned he may become about their own well-being in any western retaliation.

Make no mistake; a week ago Russia ‘definitely weren’t about to invade Ukraine’. Now their leader is specifically referencing nuclear weapons. We shouldn’t underestimate the significance of that.

 

[peterward]

The location is still utter madness.

What is wrong with eg. Geneva ?

Nobody from Belarus or Russia can get there by air!