[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Thunder Bolt]

Lets hope the West - for once - will make the decision to avoid sending hundreds of thousands of men to die in the battle for Western dominance and all those tasty natural resources in the East but I really wouldnt count on it. The propaganda machine is clearly winding people up, yet again. Impressive how it works every time. Anyone who knows a fair bit of history should also know that the whole "NATO and their members are all about peace and love" shit is ridiculous.

This is how NATO works from a journalist who lives in Romania.

[tweet]1493510374443864066[/tweet]


Ukraine feels threatened and wants to join NATO. They have that sovereign right. It is not a threat to Russia or Putin, but he is using it to flex his muscles.

 

[Braggfan]

Well, no.

There was a military occupation for a period of time. Colonising is settling somewhere permanently. Nobody sane or vaguely important has ever stated they want to make Iraq a western colony

In fairness to Swansman,

Nobody sane or vaguely important has ever stated they want to make Iraq a western colony

is exactly what he said.
Nobody said anything about it being a colony but that's what it became. You might argue it wasn't a colony in the strictest definition, but I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that it wasn't Neo-colonialism.

 

[Eric the meek]

This from the BBC:

'Putin cooking a broth of tension, expert says.

The news of some Russian troops moving away from Ukraine's border has been received as a potential step towards de-escalation, but is it a sign of Russian President Putin backing off?

Prof Sergey Radchenko, from Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, says Russia's narrative has always been that it's not threatening anyone and that its troops are just doing exercises.

He likened Putin's tactics to "cooking a broth" where he can turn the gas up or down, to create tension, as he sees fit.

Asked about Putin's aims, he says the Russian president may not be able to reach his goal of preventing Ukraine's eventual Nato membership. But by raising tensions he might be able to get some concessions from the West and Ukraine.

He adds that if Russia doesn't invade Ukraine observers will say it has been deterred. But Russia, he says, will say it never intended to do so.'

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

China is for me the big player... but in their case, in my opinion, their objective is the long game of political influence. They are less subtle about it around the developing countries in places like the continent of Africa.. ie they simply openly bribe and bully everyone they can to enable mining of resources and political influence.

In places like the UK, they are on a mission creep, probably a 50 year plan to become the dominant global force, militarily, economically and politically.

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Agree, they have been quietly investing in Africa in the full understanding that these governments will not have the realistic means to repay them conventionally!

 

[Swansman]

Well, no.

There was a military occupation for a period of time. Colonising is settling somewhere permanently. Nobody sane or vaguely important has ever stated they want to make Iraq a western colony

It is never temporary. Who owns the natural resources in """""former"""""" colonies in Africa? Companies, usually from the countries previously colonising those countries. Saddam Hussein wanted to accept oil payments in different currencies and dollars. What to do? Destroy him and find someone who will obey the imperialists. Libya wanted to keep hold of their own natural resources, what to do? Brainwash, arm and train the upper class and tell them they'll get all the luxuary in the world if they just get rid of Al-Gaddafi and install some leadership with a pro-western attitude. Permanently.

It is neo-colonialism. And people, like in here, accept the Western destroying, stealing, causing starvation and environmental destruction everywhere else because we're brainwashed for decades by media, politicians and academics pretending we're the good guys. And despite all evidence of the opposite, we continue to buy into it. Everywhere in the world where people and leaders are not willing to give us everything we want all the time, we go on a tirade on how ****ing evil and morally corrupted they are so we just have to go rob the shit out of them.

Entirely tiresome.

But obviously it works every time. Every tenth year, sometimes less, people applaude their young sons going into some war for some imaginary reason that in the end always turn out to be gold, gas, oil or whatever the flavour of the month is. The whole "Putin is evil and we're not" shit is done over and over again in history and the result is always the same: young people will die and rich people will get richer, and I'll be shocked if the result will be different regardless of what happens in Ukraine.

The main threat to peace and justice on this planet is and will remain us, the West.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It is never temporary. Who owns the natural resources in """""former"""""" colonies in Africa? Companies, usually from the countries previously colonising those countries. Saddam Hussein wanted to accept oil payments in different currencies and dollars. What to do? Destroy him and find someone who will obey the imperialists. Libya wanted to keep hold of their own natural resources, what to do? Brainwash, arm and train the upper class and tell them they'll get all the luxuary in the world if they just get rid of Al-Gaddafi and install some leadership with a pro-western attitude. Permanently.

It is neo-colonialism. And people, like in here, accept the Western destroying, stealing, causing starvation and environmental destruction everywhere else because we're brainwashed for decades by media, politicians and academics pretending we're the good guys. And despite all evidence of the opposite, we continue to buy into it. Everywhere in the world where people and leaders are not willing to give us everything we want all the time, we go on a tirade on how ****ing evil and morally corrupted they are so we just have to go rob the shit out of them.

Entirely tiresome.

But obviously it works every time. Every tenth year, sometimes less, people applaude their young sons going into some war for some imaginary reason that in the end always turn out to be gold, gas, oil or whatever the flavour of the month is. The whole "Putin is evil and we're not" shit is done over and over again in history and the result is always the same: young people will die and rich people will get richer, and I'll be shocked if the result will be different regardless of what happens in Ukraine.

The main threat to peace and justice on this planet is and will remain us, the West.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57976007

Since the defeat of IS, the US and Britain have also spent a lot of time and effort in training up Iraq's counter-insurgency forces and that training is set to continue, with Nato backing.

Not exactly the moves of an occupying colonial force.

Iran was western until the Ayotollah overthrew the Shah in the 70s, and NATO didn't interfere.

Nobody was bothered about Sadam Hussein until he invaded Kuwait and they asked for help from the west.

 

[Eric the meek]

It is never temporary. Who owns the natural resources in """""former"""""" colonies in Africa? Companies, usually from the countries previously colonising those countries. Saddam Hussein wanted to accept oil payments in different currencies and dollars. What to do? Destroy him and find someone who will obey the imperialists. Libya wanted to keep hold of their own natural resources, what to do? Brainwash, arm and train the upper class and tell them they'll get all the luxuary in the world if they just get rid of Al-Gaddafi and install some leadership with a pro-western attitude. Permanently.

It is neo-colonialism. And people, like in here, accept the Western destroying, stealing, causing starvation and environmental destruction everywhere else because we're brainwashed for decades by media, politicians and academics pretending we're the good guys. And despite all evidence of the opposite, we continue to buy into it. Everywhere in the world where people and leaders are not willing to give us everything we want all the time, we go on a tirade on how ****ing evil and morally corrupted they are so we just have to go rob the shit out of them.

Entirely tiresome.

But obviously it works every time. Every tenth year, sometimes less, people applaude their young sons going into some war for some imaginary reason that in the end always turn out to be gold, gas, oil or whatever the flavour of the month is. The whole "Putin is evil and we're not" shit is done over and over again in history and the result is always the same: young people will die and rich people will get richer, and I'll be shocked if the result will be different regardless of what happens in Ukraine.

The main threat to peace and justice on this planet is and will remain us, the West.

To be fair Putin's Palace on the Black Sea coast is a proper bond-villain's hideout.

It's got a casino, a vineyard and an ice rink and everything. It's almost as big as my house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8J2dW-QYQY

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Comical Ali's Russian sister has released this, A Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, said the day "will go into history as the day western war propaganda failed. They have been disgraced and destroyed without a single shot being fired."

 

[Simster]

Russia will not invade, putting your troops on the border is just flexing your muscles, if you really wanted to invade a country you try and catch them with their pants down and plan a surprise attack, gain a foothold

If they were serious they would have already done it by now

It's fair to assume that under normal circumstances, but because Russia is overwhelmingly superior to Ukraine militarily, they are in a position to show it by placing invasion forces at the border. It is effectively saying to the world "this is what we're going to do if we so choose" before acting taking the decision.

 

[MTSeagulls]

Swansman to me seems to be radicalised and going to the UK soon.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It's fair to assume that under normal circumstances, but because Russia is overwhelmingly superior to Ukraine militarily, they are in a position to show it by placing invasion forces at the border. It is effectively saying to the world "this is what we're going to do if we so choose" before acting taking the decision.

Well yes, but Putin isn't immune to the political effects of many of his soldiers dying. Advertising invasion for this length of time is risky

I'm 90% sure he never intended to invade, but can't claim to understand the blokes thought processes

 

[heathgate]

It is never temporary. Who owns the natural resources in """""former"""""" colonies in Africa? Companies, usually from the countries previously colonising those countries. Saddam Hussein wanted to accept oil payments in different currencies and dollars. What to do? Destroy him and find someone who will obey the imperialists. Libya wanted to keep hold of their own natural resources, what to do? Brainwash, arm and train the upper class and tell them they'll get all the luxuary in the world if they just get rid of Al-Gaddafi and install some leadership with a pro-western attitude. Permanently.

It is neo-colonialism. And people, like in here, accept the Western destroying, stealing, causing starvation and environmental destruction everywhere else because we're brainwashed for decades by media, politicians and academics pretending we're the good guys. And despite all evidence of the opposite, we continue to buy into it. Everywhere in the world where people and leaders are not willing to give us everything we want all the time, we go on a tirade on how ****ing evil and morally corrupted they are so we just have to go rob the shit out of them.

Entirely tiresome.

But obviously it works every time. Every tenth year, sometimes less, people applaude their young sons going into some war for some imaginary reason that in the end always turn out to be gold, gas, oil or whatever the flavour of the month is. The whole "Putin is evil and we're not" shit is done over and over again in history and the result is always the same: young people will die and rich people will get richer, and I'll be shocked if the result will be different regardless of what happens in Ukraine.

The main threat to peace and justice on this planet is and will remain us, the West.

Drugs,... it has to be drug induced delusion.... no other explanation for this diatribe is possible.

Bonkers.

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[sydney]

Agree, they have been quietly investing in Africa in the full understanding that these governments will not have the realistic means to repay them conventionally!

belt and road project .....heard of it ....?? half of Oceania and Asia (and Africa as you say) heavily in debt to China over the belt and road infrastructure projects , debt that will ,likely never be able to be serviced , China is slowly buying up gullible states.

 

[Simster]

Well yes, but Putin isn't immune to the political effects of many of his soldiers dying. Advertising invasion for this length of time is risky

I'm 90% sure he never intended to invade, but can't claim to understand the blokes thought processes

That thought also occurred to me, but I'm still not sure what you say is 100% correct. We have to remember that Russia's recent history is framed by bloodthirsty, paranoid dictators (foreign and home grown) that have killed several million of its people. I'd have thought a war on its border is relatively easily explained/spun as a necessary evil, even if it is the case that we see it as entirely preventable.

I have to say, I have no insight into the Russian mindset on this though. I think you need to be a scholar on Russian history or at least someone who takes great interest in the subject. Well, either that or you have to be a tedious Swedish teenager because as we all know, they tend to know absolutely everything.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I have to say, I have no insight into the Russian mindset on this though.

That's not the spirit Sim. I was just admiring how all the expert epidemiologists on here and on Twitter have retrained in Russian politics and military tactics in such a short space of time.

 

[sydney]

Drugs,... it has to be drug induced delusion.... no other explanation for this diatribe is possible.

Bonkers.

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he has a different view of the world to you , a rather cynical one but not that far from the truth .......400 billion and counting been milked out of governments worldwide over covid vaccinations , now it's time for something else to keep the till ka changing , but hey , if it gets too much for you you can always call helpline , the samaritans or beyond blue and they will make an appointment for you to see a doctor who will prescribe you some ........ drugs.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Drugs,... it has to be drug induced delusion.... no other explanation for this diatribe is possible.

Bonkers.

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I try to cut him a bit of slack as Sweden is a neutral country with Russia but it can be hard with him being such a Putin fan boy.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's not the spirit Sim. I was just admiring how all the expert epidemiologists on here and on Twitter have retrained in Russian politics and military tactics in such a short space of time.

Some of us have served in the military and with NATO.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One voice yes, normally Germany when it is economics and trade being considered... sadly for Germany in this instance, this is big boys stuff, real diplomacy backed up with some tangible resolve and unity is not the forte of your homeland, France are better placed I agree, lets hope they help light a spark of common sense in Vlads little brain.

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I had every faith in the EU resolving this issue ammicably via listening, understanding and negotiation but only a day after Olaf Scholz arrived in Moscow the Russian are now withdrawing troops; real diplomacy backed up with tangible resolve.

 

[Hampden Park]

Some of us have served in the military and with NATO.