[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[1066familyman]

And IMO, the mistake the West/ US made with Saddam was not going straight for him during his retreat from Kuwait. That would have been far more justifiable than the later 'weapons of mass destruction' format.

The modern state of Kuwait was founded in 1961. Guess who was behind that?

And guess who supported Saddam Hussein during the many years of the Iran Iraq war?

See a pattern emerging

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Reports that Ukraine government forces have sporadically been shelling the Russian separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine...of course they have retaliated..only sporadically of course but, this is how it begins....create a conflagration while you have a handily placed 120,000 heavily armed troops waiting.

Chechnya and Georgia all over again.

But some will lap up the False Flag.

What a monster the mad man in the Kremlin is. Sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, murdering 100,000s of Ukrainians. For nothing.

 

[jakarta]

Reports that Ukraine government forces have sporadically been shelling the Russian separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine...of course they have retaliated..only sporadically of course but, this is how it begins....create a conflagration while you have a handily placed 120,000 heavily armed troops waiting.

All sounds rather similar to Poland in September 1939, the Germans faked some incidents to justify invasion.

And who of course were their Best Mates - well well it was Russia...

 

[The Lemming Stomper]

All sounds rather similar to Poland in September 1939, the Germans faked some incidents to justify invasion.

And who of course were their Best Mates - well well it was Russia...

27 million dead Russians might think you're a bit wide of the mark there

 

[jakarta]

27 million dead Russians might think you're a bit wide of the mark there

The people who were running Russia at the time didn't give a flying one as to their population, always interesting to find the Tankies on NSC!

 

[heathgate]

The fact is, the British never came good on land reform promises to Zimbabwe.

The same old 'West'. They present their version of history. Same old Imperialist mentality still.

Errr... Sorry, no... the Land Reform policy began in 1980 after the Lancaster Gate agreement, and after Ian Smith handed over the throne... Britain had zero involvement, it was internal to Zim,.. handled badly, resulting in the appropriation and destruction of the Zim economy.... and the flight of virtually all the white population barring about 30k from a high of close to a third of a million.

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[portslade seagull]

Well the German diplomacy of drop your pants and take everyone along with the French of waving the white flag has worked in de-escalating. Rather than removing troops they Riskies have increased the number and built an access bridge from Belarus to Ukraine. The only way to have any chance against this madman is to stick together within NATO

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Well the German diplomacy of drop your pants and take everyone along with the French of waving the white flag has worked in de-escalating. Rather than removing troops they Riskies have increased the number and built an access bridge from Belarus to Ukraine. The only way to have any chance against this madman is to stick together within NATO

From Ukraine's point of view, it's surely a no brainer to join

From an international security point of view, i'm sure there will be plenty of countries within NATO who would far prefer to leave Ukraine to it's fate

 

[portslade seagull]

From Ukraine's point of view, it's surely a no brainer to join

From an international security point of view, i'm sure there will be plenty of countries within NATO who would far prefer to leave Ukraine to it's fate

The trouble being if given the green light to retake Ukraine it then means other former USSR satellites will come under review as they are actually in NATO and Putin doesn't like that.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The trouble being if given the green light to retake Ukraine it then means other former USSR satellites will come under review as they are actually in NATO and Putin doesn't like that.

That would depend on the ease with which Ukraine is subsumed and the coherence of the Western response. But yes, worse case scenario, Putin attacks Ukraine, military resistance crumbles, international response mixed, Putin greeted as a hero at home. This time next year Putin the eyes up Baltic states to really test whether an attack on one equals an attack on them all.

I'd expect Ukraine to put up a stout fight though. The extent to which the west backs them would be fascinating and scary in equal measure.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Russia v Ukraine... any idea on the kick off time ?

A lot of people are still wondering if there will be a "kick off."

Only Putin knows for sure.

 

[Albion my Albion]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ckup-plan-in-ukraine/ar-AATX7WB?ocid=msedgntp

Putin Has a New, Brutal Backup Plan in Ukraine


On Tuesday, the Duma, Russia’s parliament, passed a resolution authorizing Putin to recognize the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic—the two provinces of Ukraine’s southeastern Donbas region, which are occupied by armed pro-Russia separatists—as independent states. He could next move thousands of troops, tanks, and other weapons into the territories, at the “request” of their leaders, to defend their people from Ukrainian assault.

In this way, Putin could keep up the military pressure on the Ukrainian government without facing the many risks of a full-scale invasion,. He could also further obstruct Ukraine’s already-forlorn prospects for membership in NATO—Putin’s main goal—since, in order to join the U.S.-led military alliance, a state must have stable borders, among other qualities.

 

[heathgate]

That would depend on the ease with which Ukraine is subsumed and the coherence of the Western response. But yes, worse case scenario, Putin attacks Ukraine, military resistance crumbles, international response mixed, Putin greeted as a hero at home. This time next year Putin the eyes up Baltic states to really test whether an attack on one equals an attack on them all.

I'd expect Ukraine to put up a stout fight though. The extent to which the west backs them would be fascinating and scary in equal measure.

Sadly, despite the rhetoric from Ukrainians, if the worst happens and Russia invades, the result will be a walk over, declared a 3-0 win by default.... we have seen before in Crimea in particular, most of the local troops threw down their weapons as soon as Putin's special forces units made an appearance.

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[beorhthelm]

Sadly, despite the rhetoric from Ukrainians, if the worst happens and Russia invades, the result will be a walk over, declared a 3-0 win by default.... we have seen before in Crimea in particular, most of the local troops threw down their weapons as soon as Putin's special forces units made an appearance.

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situation is very different, then there had been a political crisis and a surprise attack. there's a reason they have >100k troops lined up, any invasion isnt expected to be a walk in.

 

[peterward]

Chechnya and Georgia all over again.

But some will lap up the False Flag.

What a monster the mad man in the Kremlin is. Sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, murdering 100,000s of Ukrainians. For nothing.

Your finger is on the pulse BV. Have a read about what Putin did in using his close mates in the FSB to murder his own civilians, to give the "flase flag" pretext to go back into Chechnya, which was deeply unpopular in opinion polls (before he ordered the murder of Russian civilians).

If you read the article, the FSB head of the time Nikolai Patrushev, is one of Putins closest old colleagues from their St Petersbury KGB days,and today Nikolai Patrushev is now Putins National security advisor and chief hawk in decapitiating Ukraine.

https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-russia-president-1999-chechnya-apartment-bombings/30097551.html

You may have heard of the Russian dissident who came here and was Murdered with a chemical weapon in 2006, Alexander Litvinenko, he published key extracts of Putins crime, and thus became a traitor and enemy of the state.

Putins playbook is the same, the whole secret service intelligence service works for him, enables him and is in the hands of close old friends.

 

[1066familyman]

Errr... Sorry, no... the Land Reform policy began in 1980 after the Lancaster Gate agreement, and after Ian Smith handed over the throne... Britain had zero involvement, it was internal to Zim,.. handled badly, resulting in the appropriation and destruction of the Zim economy.... and the flight of virtually all the white population barring about 30k from a high of close to a third of a million.

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I see your colonial mentality still persists.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/mugabe-is-right-about-land-reform-277990.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/16/zimbabwe.chrismcgreal

 

[1066familyman]

Pacifism has always been considered radical in some countries, yes.



It is exactly the moves of an occupying colonial force. US, Britain and NATO training soldiers to protect the pro-Western government against people who are not happy with a fire sale of the countries natural resources while themselves live in poverty.

Yes, Iran was western/pro-west because their government was overthrown by the West in 1953, with a western-backed leader installed. Why? Because Mohammad Mossadegh decided to nationalise the British owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, then in British hands.

I think you're banging your head against a brick wall with the majority on here.

They still persist with a colonial mentality I'm afraid.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I think you're banging your head against a brick wall with the majority on here.

They still persist with a colonial mentality I'm afraid.

I also have a colonial mentality .... because I don't think Putin should invade Ukraine and that the west should stand united against aggression and bullying of this nature.

Though undoubtedly there is some geopolitical faux pas that Britain did decades ago which renders this opinion invalid and ignorant.

 

[Swansman]

I also have a colonial mentality .... because I don't think Putin should invade Ukraine and that the west should stand united against aggression and bullying of this nature.

Though undoubtedly there is some geopolitical faux pas that Britain did decades ago which renders this opinion invalid and ignorant.

Faux pas... sums your attitude up nicely.

 

[1066familyman]

Faux pas... sums your attitude up nicely.

Exactly!

Took the words right out of my mouth.

This is why you're wasting your time arguing with them.