[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[heathgate]

I had every faith in the EU resolving this issue ammicably via listening, understanding and negotiation but only a day after Olaf Scholz arrived in Moscow the Russian are now withdrawing troops; real diplomacy backed up with tangible resolve.

What was 'given up' I wonder.....!? But pleased if true.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

What was 'given up' I wonder.....!? But pleased if true.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

possibly nothing. unusually US and different europeans have been unified, despite some early wavering. its almost as if someone wanted to test the resolve.

 

[raymondo]

I had every faith in the EU resolving this issue ammicably via listening, understanding and negotiation but only a day after Olaf Scholz arrived in Moscow the Russian are now withdrawing troops; real diplomacy backed up with tangible resolve.

Maybe Olaf said...we really won't open the pipeline (at least for a while). But I'm not convinced the current situation is over yet.

 

[Swansman]

Drugs,... it has to be drug induced delusion.... no other explanation for this diatribe is possible.

Bonkers.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

So what part of it isnt true?

 

[heathgate]

So what part of it isnt true?

Its ok chap,... I'll leave you to it, whatever 'it' is of course.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Swansman]

Swansman to me seems to be radicalised and going to the UK soon.

Pacifism has always been considered radical in some countries, yes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57976007

Since the defeat of IS, the US and Britain have also spent a lot of time and effort in training up Iraq's counter-insurgency forces and that training is set to continue, with Nato backing.

Not exactly the moves of an occupying colonial force.

Iran was western until the Ayotollah overthrew the Shah in the 70s, and NATO didn't interfere.

Nobody was bothered about Sadam Hussein until he invaded Kuwait and they asked for help from the west.

It is exactly the moves of an occupying colonial force. US, Britain and NATO training soldiers to protect the pro-Western government against people who are not happy with a fire sale of the countries natural resources while themselves live in poverty.

Yes, Iran was western/pro-west because their government was overthrown by the West in 1953, with a western-backed leader installed. Why? Because Mohammad Mossadegh decided to nationalise the British owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, then in British hands.

 

[A1X]

What is officially stated doesnt tell the whole truth.

So instead you prefer just to make shit up and claim that's the real truth?

No one, as far as I know, said they wanted to "colonise" Iraq back in 2003 yet that is exactly what happen and it was the purpose all long despite the gobbering about "weapons of mass destruction".

Sorry, I'm not as up on the news these days, but do the British and Americans run Iraq from their respective capitals now? Is Iraq not an autonomous country? Is their defence provided entirely by British and American forces and not through their own (which have been trained by the British and Americans)? Do you even understand what a colony is?

And there are countless other examples.

Off you go then.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

[Tweet]1493556709209612292[/Tweet]

And there we have it.

Mad man Putin's play.

All he needs to do is sign it.

 

[Swansman]

So instead you prefer just to make shit up and claim that's the real truth?



Sorry, I'm not as up on the news these days, but do the British and Americans run Iraq from their respective capitals now? Is Iraq not an autonomous country? Is their defence provided entirely by British and American forces and not through their own (which have been trained by the British and Americans)? Do you even understand what a colony is?



Off you go then.

I dont make anything up. The difference between me and others here is that I'm not whitewashing western imperialism.

No, Iraq is not an autonomous country. Before the Iraq war, their oil was nationalized and this was the reason to invade Iraq - to allow Big Oil to control their resources. If a country is not allowed to own its own natural resources without being invaded, it is not autonomous because it means someone else is deciding the rules for your country. Its a remote controlled colony. Many people in Iraq live in poverty because we are stealing their national resources.

As for giving you more examples, it seems rather pointless. There seems to be absolute zero understanding that large corporations, often in bed with our states, are controlling most of the natural resources in the third world and that this is something bad we're doing to them rather than some kind of ****ing altruistic philantropic favor.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I dont make anything up. The difference between me and others here is that I'm not whitewashing western imperialism.

No, Iraq is not an autonomous country. Before the Iraq war, their oil was nationalized and this was the reason to invade Iraq - to allow Big Oil to control their resources. If a country is not allowed to own its own natural resources without being invaded, it is not autonomous because it means someone else is deciding the rules for your country. Its a remote controlled colony. Many people in Iraq live in poverty because we are stealing their national resources.

As for giving you more examples, it seems rather pointless. There seems to be absolute zero understanding that large corporations, often in bed with our states, are controlling most of the natural resources in the third world and that this is something bad we're doing to them rather than some kind of ****ing altruistic philantropic favor.

That is far too simplistic. There is constant civil war in Iraq because of the disputes between Sunni and Shia, and also don't conflate the West with the USA. There are a lot of things the Americans do, that are not condoned by European countries.

 

[rippleman]

In recent years "the West" has involved itself in "regime change" in Iraq (twice), Syria, Libya and Afghanistan. And how has that worked out?

In Zimbabwe, when the racist Mugabe was slaughtering white farmers, enriching himself at the expense of his people, brought the economy to its knees resulting in famine and poverty, "the West" did nothing.

I'm beginning to wonder if Swanny might just have a point.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In recent years "the West" has involved itself in "regime change" in Iraq (twice), Syria, Libya and Afghanistan. And how has that worked out?

In Zimbabwe, when the racist Mugabe was slaughtering white farmers, enriching himself at the expense of his people, brought the economy to its knees resulting in famine and poverty, "the West" did nothing.

I'm beginning to wonder if Swanny might just have a point.

The 'West' were told to keep out of Zimbabwe's affairs by the ANC saying it was for Africans to sort out.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

In recent years "the West" has involved itself in "regime change" in Iraq (twice), Syria, Libya and Afghanistan. And how has that worked out?

In Zimbabwe, when the racist Mugabe was slaughtering white farmers, enriching himself at the expense of his people, brought the economy to its knees resulting in famine and poverty, "the West" did nothing.

I'm beginning to wonder if Swanny might just have a point.

There are other examples where the west didn't intervene in genocidal activity around the world. Rohingya, Rwanda.

The truth is, if you intervene you inevitably encounter hideous consequences and if you don't intervene, you inevitably encounter hideous consequences.

I'd like it if those decisions were made on the basis of a cold light of day prediction of the probable least horrendous outcome, rather than the political convenience of various world leaders and their financial backers, but that would involve us having trust in politicians and the political system, which won't be happening for a good while.

 

[heathgate]

The 'West' were told to keep out of Zimbabwe's affairs by the ANC saying it was for Africans to sort out.

...and of course, like EVERYTHING that the ANC govt of SA has said it will do since 1994, absolutely nothing was done.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

No, Iraq is not an autonomous country. Before the Iraq war, their oil was nationalized and this was the reason to invade Iraq - to allow Big Oil to control their resources. If a country is not allowed to own its own natural resources without being invaded, it is not autonomous because it means someone else is deciding the rules for your country. Its a remote controlled colony. Many people in Iraq live in poverty because we are stealing their national resources.

you seem ignorant that Iraq invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi. they nationalised their oil industry in early 70s, and had a good war with their neighbours Iran in the 80s before turning attention to the south. basically Saddam was a tyrant who liked a big miltary to keep the population subdued. oil industry licence resources from a country to extract them, they dont own much less control them, and pay the country handsomly for the privilege. how that wealth is distributed to the country is down to their leaders.

Russia has spent much of their oil revenue on building up their army. see a pattern?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Powerful stuff from Biden.

Made it clear Putin will face terrible costs for any invasion.

He may just have saved Ukraine for tonight.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Royal United Services Institute report ( 20 pages ) linked in this Tweet.

"The Plot to destroy Ukraine"


[Tweet]1494091064491360263[/Tweet]

 

[raymondo]

you seem ignorant that Iraq invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi. they nationalised their oil industry in early 70s, and had a good war with their neighbours Iran in the 80s before turning attention to the south. basically Saddam was a tyrant who liked a big miltary to keep the population subdued. oil industry licence resources from a country to extract them, they dont own much less control them, and pay the country handsomly for the privilege. how that wealth is distributed to the country is down to their leaders.

Russia has spent much of their oil revenue on building up their army. see a pattern?

And IMO, the mistake the West/ US made with Saddam was not going straight for him during his retreat from Kuwait. That would have been far more justifiable than the later 'weapons of mass destruction' format.

 

[1066familyman]

The 'West' were told to keep out of Zimbabwe's affairs by the ANC saying it was for Africans to sort out.

The fact is, the British never came good on land reform promises to Zimbabwe.

The same old 'West'. They present their version of history. Same old Imperialist mentality still.

 

[vegster]

Reports that Ukraine government forces have sporadically been shelling the Russian separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine...of course they have retaliated..only sporadically of course but, this is how it begins....create a conflagration while you have a handily placed 120,000 heavily armed troops waiting.