[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Jolly Red Giant]

To be clear - Ukraine is entitled to self-dertermination without interference from an outside power - and Russia must be condemned for its actions. However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

The hypocrisy of the western powers is nauseating - While the west has been condeming Putin over the past 72 hours - they have backed the Saudi dictatorship to the hilt for the past 7 years in bombing Yemen into rubble and killing more than 400,000 people (and possibly as many as 700,000 people) in the process. They have said nothing in recent weeks about Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, Saudi airstrikes in Yemen, Turkish airstrikes in northern Iraq, American airstrikes in Somalia and an American special forces ground assault in Syria. All of these actions should be condemned just as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is condemned.

 

[birthofanorange]

The thing that pisses me off the most, is what complete shits we are (as humans) to each other. Millennia spent fighting 'ourselves' over spurious beliefs and 'causes', and we seem to have learned nothing, during the whole time.
Yes, in the main, people of the world muddle along, but it still only takes one person such as Putin to bring us ALL to the brink of something that seemed unthinkable in the past few decades.
It makes me wonder if we're truly worthy of a place on this amazing planet.
I hope we are.

 

[rogersix]

Oh for goodness sake. We are all on the same side. Make these comments on a different thread if you must.

well, that's my point. with johnson's worshipping of mammon, whose side is he on?

 

[SweatyMexican]

Astonishes me that people are debating party politics when we are on the brink of a third world war. I get the strong feeling that people don't realise how incredibly serious this situation is.

Russia has 6200 nuclear warheads, more than the UK (255), France (500) and US (3750) combined.

If push comes to shove, this won't be "good old Tommy's going off to liberate Ukraine", this could be instant and complete annihilation of the entirety of Europe.

The unfortunate truth.

The whole of NATO need to put everything aside and make the right decisions. Not easy to do without hindsight, but we can still avert total disaster. We need to find a middle ground that doesn’t escalate the situation and also doesn’t let Putin off the hook.

And Putin is mad. It’s tough to reason with that. He won’t let go of power lightly.

 

[peterward]

Astonishes me that people are debating party politics when we are on the brink of a third world war. I get the strong feeling that people don't realise how incredibly serious this situation is.

Russia has 6200 nuclear warheads, more than the UK (255), France (500) and US (3750) combined.

If push comes to shove, this won't be "good old Tommy's going off to liberate Ukraine", this could be instant and complete annihilation of the entirety of Europe.

It won't be nuke wars today mate. Anyway you don't need 6000 nukes, unless you plan to destroy world 20x over rather than once. Our 255 is more than enough and I'd wager at least one of our subs, plus some US subs are sitting underwater off Russia. Putin will know this too.

The threats are imho because he thinks we're weak and he wants to scare us into not stopping his invasion. MDA still stands. If he's a suicide bomber not much we can do, if he's not it won't go nuclear.

They won't all be suicide bombers around him.

 

[Swansman]

To be clear - Ukraine is entitled to self-dertermination without interference from an outside power - and Russia must be condemned for its actions. However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

The hypocrisy of the western powers is nauseating - While the west has been condeming Putin over the past 72 hours - they have backed the Saudi dictatorship to the hilt for the past 7 years in bombing Yemen into rubble and killing more than 400,000 people (and possibly as many as 700,000 people) in the process. They have said nothing in recent weeks about Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, Saudi airstrikes in Yemen, Turkish airstrikes in northern Iraq, American airstrikes in Somalia and an American special forces ground assault in Syria. All of these actions should be condemned just as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is condemned.

Obviously. But the media (or rather the military–industrial–media comple) decides what people are or are not interested in.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

To be clear - Ukraine is entitled to self-dertermination without interference from an outside power - and Russia must be condemned for its actions. However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

The hypocrisy of the western powers is nauseating - While the west has been condeming Putin over the past 72 hours - they have backed the Saudi dictatorship to the hilt for the past 7 years in bombing Yemen into rubble and killing more than 400,000 people (and possibly as many as 700,000 people) in the process. They have said nothing in recent weeks about Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, Saudi airstrikes in Yemen, Turkish airstrikes in northern Iraq, American airstrikes in Somalia and an American special forces ground assault in Syria. All of these actions should be condemned just as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is condemned.

NATO hasn’t expanded since 2004, 18 years ago. Countries have asked to join NATO as sovereign countries which they have every right to.
NATO is a peacekeeping force so no threat to Russia.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

To be clear - Ukraine is entitled to self-dertermination without interference from an outside power - and Russia must be condemned for its actions. However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

The hypocrisy of the western powers is nauseating - While the west has been condeming Putin over the past 72 hours - they have backed the Saudi dictatorship to the hilt for the past 7 years in bombing Yemen into rubble and killing more than 400,000 people (and possibly as many as 700,000 people) in the process. They have said nothing in recent weeks about Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, Saudi airstrikes in Yemen, Turkish airstrikes in northern Iraq, American airstrikes in Somalia and an American special forces ground assault in Syria. All of these actions should be condemned just as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is condemned.

The thread is saved. Militant Tendency has turned up.

 

[est.83]

However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

What did I just read...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Obviously. But the media (or rather the military–industrial–media comple) decides what people are or are not interested in.

Don’t judge others by your own standards.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What did I just read...

Silly self styled politics, posted without knowledge of other countries.
How are things in Estonia?

 

[Swansman]

NATO hasn’t expanded since 2004, 18 years ago. Countries have asked to join NATO as sovereign countries which they have every right to.
NATO is a peacekeeping force so no threat to Russia.

People outside NATO nations might have a different view.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What did I just read...

Putin has created his own account on NSC. I wonder what he thinks about the goal scoring issues at the club.

 

[British Bulldog]

i'll be stood right behind boris johnson's first born, where will you be?

Fighting for the people I love?

 

[Eric the meek]

To be clear - Ukraine is entitled to self-dertermination without interference from an outside power - and Russia must be condemned for its actions. However, NATO bears significant responsibility for the Russian invasion of Ukraine - over the past number of years Nato has expanded eastwards and has positioned troops, equipment and missiles in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania - effectively threatening to encircle Russia if it continued this expansion.This war is the product of two competing imperialist blocs attempting to strengthen their military position.

The hypocrisy of the western powers is nauseating - While the west has been condeming Putin over the past 72 hours - they have backed the Saudi dictatorship to the hilt for the past 7 years in bombing Yemen into rubble and killing more than 400,000 people (and possibly as many as 700,000 people) in the process. They have said nothing in recent weeks about Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, Saudi airstrikes in Yemen, Turkish airstrikes in northern Iraq, American airstrikes in Somalia and an American special forces ground assault in Syria. All of these actions should be condemned just as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is condemned.

Have you ever looked at an atlas?

 

[Swansman]

Don’t judge others by your own standards.

I'm telling you like it is. People dont care about Westerners bombing and killing people in foreign countries. It is very obvious. And the reasons are also obvious.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If it kicks off nobody will be grabbing anything. A flash of light and instant incineration - if you're lucky. Otherwise a slow, brutal death from radiation poisoning and catastrophic burn trauma.

No point in worrying about things out of your/my control tbh.


If we are talking about the present I think always running away cowering when Putin mutters about nuclear war is the wrong strategy.

Front him up, make him know it is the end of days if he launches nukes.

The Chinese - who share the planet - would soon tell the Kremlin to pack it in.

 

[birthofanorange]

I'm telling you like it is. People dont care about Westerners bombing and killing people in foreign countries. It is very obvious. And the reasons are also obvious.

I did say that I wasn't going to engage with you, but seriously - **** off.

 

[est.83]

Silly self styled politics, posted without knowledge of other countries.
How are things in Estonia?

[tweet]1497574687202852866[/tweet]


Also, very happy to hear that our Javelins are making the occupants pay (as well as yours).

 

[Swansman]

I did say that I wasn't going to engage with you, but seriously - **** off.

The truth hurts.

We're every bit as bad as the Russians.

Hopefully one day the entire world will change for the better.