[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Dream on.

He u-turned on speaking to Zelenksyy because it suited his narcissistic focus on being “in” with high level talks particularly as Starmer didn’t speak to Harris which I maintain was a mistake. Harris is just as much the likely next President as Trump.

Trump is never going to be ‘open-minded’ about Ukraine, he is a Putin appeaser and any relationship between Trump and Zelenskyy is going to be characterised by Trump putting pressure on him to concede territory to Putin in some Trump-Putin favoured peace plan much in the same way, his Peace Plan for Israel sold the Palestinians down the river by agreeing that a 3rd of the West Bank be given to Israel.

Trump needs to be kept away from imposing any settlements in Ukraine - it is up to Zelenskyy what deal if any he makes with Russia, I don’t care how “open-minded” he pretends to be nor do I read anything into him agreeing to meet with Zelenskyy other than it is access for him to push Putin’s agenda for Ukraine as he always has done.

I hope to goodness that Europe/UK have plans of how to continue support for Ukraine... (without US involvement/ support) if Trump gets in.
Trump can agree what he wants with Putin, and Ukraine can tell them to f**k off, but would at least need continued support from Europe in that case.
Scary and fragile times.

 

[Triggaaar]

I hope to goodness that Europe/UK have plans of how to continue support for Ukraine... (without US involvement/ support) if Trump gets in.
Trump can agree what he wants with Putin, and Ukraine can tell them to f**k off, but would at least need continued support from Europe in that case.
Scary and fragile times.

I don't care what it costs, we have to support them.

 

[Eric the meek]

I hope to goodness that Europe/UK have plans of how to continue support for Ukraine... (without US involvement/ support) if Trump gets in.
Trump can agree what he wants with Putin, and Ukraine can tell them to f**k off, but would at least need continued support from Europe in that case.
Scary and fragile times.

Latest polling data:

Harris 48.6%, Trump 45.7% - average of national polls.

Can Kamala Harris beat Donald Trump? Latest poll updates from the 2024 election

Here’s what the latest polls say about the 2024 presidential election, from The Independent’s data correspondent

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Zeberdi]

I don't care what it costs, we have to support them.

Agreed that goes without saying.

But if Trump wins, we need to be prepared to do it without the US.

 

[seagullwedgee]

I knew the US had made a significant contribution to arming Ukraine over the last 31 months, but the precise scale of their contribution, relative to EU nations, has really has shocked me. If Trump did suspend contributions, most EU nations would have to put their economies fully onto a long term war footing, to fill the gap. It is colossal. And that means being debt laden for probably 10 to 15 years, maybe more.

 

[Eric the meek]

Agreed that goes without saying.

But if Trump wins, we need to be prepared to do it without the US.

And need to stand firm in the face of all sorts of threats, veiled and unveiled, from Russia to dissuade us from helping Ukraine.

One of them is still 15 nautical miles off Margate.

 

[Triggaaar]

I knew the US had made a significant contribution to arming Ukraine over the last 31 months, but the precise scale of their contribution, relative to EU nations, has really has shocked me.

Are the contributions gifts, or loans like we got for WW2?

 

[A1X]

Hopefully, the plan Zelensky shows Trump will have a few crucial details either missing or 'accidentally' wrong.

Maybe he could go full “Wagatha Christie” and give each of the senior Republicans a different plan and see which one Putin reacts to?

 

[Zeberdi]

And need to stand firm in the face of all sorts of threats, veiled and unveiled, from Russia to dissuade us from helping Ukraine.

One of them is still 15 nautical miles off Margate.

Quite. However, Trump could pull the US out of NATO, and even if he doesn’t, he has questioned numerous times why the US should get involved in a war in Europe against Russia when it “doesn’t benefit the US”.

Bearing that in mind we should also be aware that the UK’s nuclear deterrent is a ‘£172bn pile of bricks’ because we can’t use it without US approval and those planned to be stored again at RAF Lakenheath belong to the US..

I never thought I’d argue for rearmament. But a looming Trump presidency changes everything | George Monbiot

A Putin-friendly president would pose a grave danger to Europe. Like it or not, this calls for greater defence, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

Trump told European leaders that US ‘will never come to help you’

Then president told European commissioners in 2020 that ‘Nato is dead’ and the US would never defend Europe if it were attacked

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bodian]

Wrong thread.

 

[sparkie]

Quite. However, Trump could pull the US out of NATO, and even if he doesn’t, he has questioned numerous times why the US should get involved in a war in Europe against Russia when it “doesn’t benefit the US”.

Bearing that in mind we should also be aware that the UK’s nuclear deterrent is a ‘£172bn pile of bricks’ because we can’t use it without US approval and those planned to be stored again at RAF Lakenheath belong to the US..

I never thought I’d argue for rearmament. But a looming Trump presidency changes everything | George Monbiot

A Putin-friendly president would pose a grave danger to Europe. Like it or not, this calls for greater defence, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

Trump told European leaders that US ‘will never come to help you’

Then president told European commissioners in 2020 that ‘Nato is dead’ and the US would never defend Europe if it were attacked

www.theguardian.com

He needs the agreement of 2/3rds of the Senate to actually do that.

However... he could refuse to respond to an Article 5 call - which is sort of similar. In that case though the pressure on him would be immense.

 

[A1X]

Surely, give the amount of the US economy devoted to arms manufacture, participating in a war like this is very much in the US’s interests? As said previously, the likes of Lockheed Martin mustn’t be able to believe their luck to get to test their gear in real world conditions against Russian hardware. And the more the Europeans get concerned about the US and invest in their own companies / systems, the less market share they have.

 

[A1X]

I know I bang on about Orban a lot but f***ing Hell



This isn’t just his usual nonsense but basically a NATO and EU member saying “well, Vlad, I can tell you Budapest is just lovely, you should definitely pay us a visit…”

 

[Triggaaar]

I know I bang on about Orban a lot but f***ing Hell



This isn’t just his usual nonsense but basically a NATO and EU member saying “well, Vlad, I can tell you Budapest is just lovely, you should definitely pay us a visit…”

That's mind blowing. It simply says 'Hungary is yours for free if you want it' to Putin, and that makes no sense, so what's the alternative? Maybe it's a simple lie intended to criticise Zelenskyy and support Putin.

Orban needs to go.

 

[A1X]

That's mind blowing. It simply says 'Hungary is yours for free if you want it' to Putin, and that makes no sense, so what's the alternative? Maybe it's a simple lie intended to criticise Zelenskyy and support Putin.

Orban needs to go.

And let’s not forget, Trump recently cited Orban as the world leader he most admired.

 

[Triggaaar]

And let’s not forget, Trump recently cited Orban as the world leader he most admired.

It's difficult to imagine that Putin doesn't have something on Trump

 

[GT49er]

I know I bang on about Orban a lot but f***ing Hell



This isn’t just his usual nonsense but basically a NATO and EU member saying “well, Vlad, I can tell you Budapest is just lovely, you should definitely pay us a visit…”

Orban is not popular in Hungary, I understand. Time to suspend Hungary's membership of NATO and the UN, to force his hand. Would the people of Hungary still go along with him if he had removed all possibility of ongoing freedom and prosperity for them?

And let's face it, Hungary at the moment is a threat to the integrity of both organisations.

 

[Gabbiano]

It's difficult to imagine that Putin doesn't have something on Trump

After all the scandals he's come through already, how bad can it be?

I remember rumours of the Russians having footage of him with prostitutes in Moscow, but the Stormy Daniels case hasn't affected his base.

Unless it's rock solid evidence of some federal crime...

 

[Flounce]

After all the scandals he's come through already, how bad can it be?

I remember rumours of the Russians having footage of him with prostitutes in Moscow, but the Stormy Daniels case hasn't affected his base.

Unless it's rock solid evidence of some federal crime...

Trump is Teflon, absolutely nothing sticks, the fact that he is able to run for President proves it

 

[raymondo]