[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Dr Bandler]

Indeed - Stalin and every Russian leader since (bar one or two) have sacrificed millions of their own people with
not a care in the world for what? Absolutely nothing. Prickin is no different.

It is awful, and the whole situation is a great source of stress and unhappiness to all Russians I know. One is married to a Ukrainian man - they had a business in Donetsk and left there because the Ukrainian's never stopped shelling before this all kicked off this time, and then moved to Kharkiv and left there when the Russians invaded. They have now fled to Lithuania, with their disabled daughter.

Sadly, no leaders seem to really care about their people and their lives - it is just a question of degree; i.e. Putin is a bigger pig than Johnson (for now). The human cost of geo-political games always has been awful.

 

[Dr Bandler]

I'm not sure that the dam is that different to all the other killing and destroying of power stations etc.

It's difficult to see where the war goes next. Even if Ukraine take back a lot of their land, Russia can keep firing cheap missiles at Ukrainian cities for years to come. What exactly would stop that from happening? Surely there has to come a point where Ukraine says if you keep firing missiles at our cities, we're going to fire missiles at yours. And if you escalate to nukes, Nato will retaliate.

And don't you think everything should be done to avoid that? Somehow I kind of believe that no one is daft enough to allow the potential mutually assured destruction of full out nuclear war. Certainly if you believe the super rich really control things behind the scenes then what is in that scenario for them? I would like to see more efforts to find a solution and stop people dying.

 

[Triggaaar]

It is awful, and the whole situation is a great source of stress and unhappiness to all Russians I know. One is married to a Ukrainian man - they had a business in Donetsk and left there because the Ukrainian's never stopped shelling

What were Ukraine shelling? Did Ukraine not have control of Donetsk?

Sadly, no leaders seem to really care about their people and their lives - it is just a question of degree; i.e. Putin is a bigger pig than Johnson (for now).

Wow, what an incredibly stupid comment.

 

[raymondo]

And don't you think everything should be done to avoid that? Somehow I kind of believe that no one is daft enough to allow the potential mutually assured destruction of full out nuclear war. Certainly if you believe the super rich really control things behind the scenes then what is in that scenario for them? I would like to see more efforts to find a solution and stop people dying.

Me too. If Putin moved out of the country he's invaded that would be a good start.

 

[Triggaaar]

And don't you think everything should be done to avoid that?

So do you mean to stop Ukraine joining Nato?

Certainly if you believe the super rich really control things behind the scenes then what is in that scenario for them?

The super rich won't be happy about Putin starting this war, but they've been unable to stop him.

 

[raymondo]

It is awful, and the whole situation is a great source of stress and unhappiness to all Russians I know. One is married to a Ukrainian man - they had a business in Donetsk and left there because the Ukrainian's never stopped shelling before this all kicked off this time, and then moved to Kharkiv and left there when the Russians invaded. They have now fled to Lithuania, with their disabled daughter.

Sadly, no leaders seem to really care about their people and their lives - it is just a question of degree; i.e. Putin is a bigger pig than Johnson (for now). The human cost of geo-political games always has been awful.

I seem to remember that Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas...no?

 

[Solid at the back]

It is awful, and the whole situation is a great source of stress and unhappiness to all Russians I know. One is married to a Ukrainian man - they had a business in Donetsk and left there because the Ukrainian's never stopped shelling before this all kicked off this time, and then moved to Kharkiv and left there when the Russians invaded. They have now fled to Lithuania, with their disabled daughter.

Sadly, no leaders seem to really care about their people and their lives - it is just a question of degree; i.e. Putin is a bigger pig than Johnson (for now). The human cost of geo-political games always has been awful.

This is a bizarre comment. I suppose what you meant to say is your friends left Donestk because Russia bombed it and sent in troops illegally to the area to cause unrest and ultimately annex it.

 

[Dr Bandler]

This is a bizarre comment. I suppose what you meant to say is your friends left Donestk because Russia bombed it and sent in troops illegally to the area to cause unrest and ultimately annex it.

No, I am quite clear. After the events of 2014 Donetsk and Luhansk became breakaway republics, obviously supported by Russia, who did send people to support the breakaway militia. Periodic shelling of Donetsk continued by the Ukrainian side right up to the start of this conflict this year. This is from people who lived there. They left there around two years ago to live in Kharkiv. None of this, of course, in any way justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, it is important to be clear about facts.

 

[Solid at the back]

No, I am quite clear. After the events of 2014 Donetsk and Luhansk became breakaway republics, obviously supported by Russia, who did send people to support the breakaway militia. Periodic shelling of Donetsk continued by the Ukrainian side right up to the start of this conflict this year. This is from people who lived there. They left there around two years ago to live in Kharkiv. None of this, of course, in any way justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, it is important to be clear about facts.

There was no "breakaway militia" it was Russian troops, disguised as locals, supported by Russian troops.

 

[peterward]

There was no "breakaway militia" it was Russian troops, disguised as locals, supported by Russian troops.

Here here. This talk of "Russia backed separatists" is nonsense.

Nothing of the sort existed until imported at gunpoint by the GRU/FSB.

Farmers with the latest Russian military equipment!

It was a hybrid invasion.

 

[A1X]

What would happen if Ukraine officially became part of NATO, for argument's sake say on Jan 1st 2023.
Would we simply then say to Prickin: 'one more missile or attack in Ukraine by you and we'll consider
that an attack on NATO'?

The rules of joining NATO state that there must be no ongoing border disputes as a precondition of entry. Which would appear to be to rule out exactly this situation happening. Which suggests that Ukraine cannot join NATO until Russia has withdrawn (including from Crimea unless Ukraine rescinds it’s claim). This is regarded as one of the reasons why Putin has gone and caused a few incursions in Georgia et al in the past.

 

[Sirnormangall]

No, I am quite clear. After the events of 2014 Donetsk and Luhansk became breakaway republics, obviously supported by Russia, who did send people to support the breakaway militia. Periodic shelling of Donetsk continued by the Ukrainian side right up to the start of this conflict this year. This is from people who lived there. They left there around two years ago to live in Kharkiv. None of this, of course, in any way justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, it is important to be clear about facts.

I’m no expert, but I had thought that Donetsk and Luhansk only became breakaway republics because they were invaded by Russia. From what I’ve read the occupation of those lands has changed many times over hundreds of years and pre 2014 there were no doubt many Russian speaking people there with a strong affinity to Russia. But in the 21st century, that’s no excuse to invade another country. Unfortunately it seems to have been Russian policy for many years to encourage Russians to set up home in former soviet satellite countries, giving them a reason to be able to take military action to “protect” them. Ukraine may not be the last country where we see this happening.

 

[Solid at the back]

I’m no expert, but I had thought that Donetsk and Luhansk only became breakaway republics because they were invaded by Russia. From what I’ve read the occupation of those lands has changed many times over hundreds of years and pre 2014 there were no doubt many Russian speaking people there with a strong affinity to Russia. But in the 21st century, that’s no excuse to invade another country. Unfortunately it seems to have been Russian policy for many years to encourage Russians to set up home in former soviet satellite countries, giving them a reason to be able to take military action to “protect” them. Ukraine may not be the last country where we see this happening.

Save your breath, the guy is clearly a Putin sympathiser. He can't see the wood from the trees.

He suggested that Ukraine was shelling Ukraine, not sure why Ukraine would want to destroy its own country. Its an oxymoron.

Russia started this war in 2014, after the Maidain revolution and because Putin knew he was losing influence in the region. He decided to then send in his "little green men" as a rouse to cause unrest, and then sent in their own troops to back the "separatists" (these ofcourse were just Russian troops in the first instance) - calling this a "breakaway militia" is disturbing, unsettling and, actually, Russian propaganda. This is what the Russians wanted you to believe. Its bullshit. Its almost 9 years later and I can't believe people are still peddling this rubbish.

 

[Baldseagull]

101st. Heavily involved in the Hamburger Hill assault in Vietnam.

101st. One of the first airborne units into France on D-Day 6th June early hours by
airplane. Formidable unit indeed. If only the Pathfinders had done a better job.

I reckon it will probably be a completely different bunch of blokes now.

 

[Weststander]

No, I am quite clear. After the events of 2014 Donetsk and Luhansk became breakaway republics, obviously supported by Russia, who did send people to support the breakaway militia. Periodic shelling of Donetsk continued by the Ukrainian side right up to the start of this conflict this year. This is from people who lived there. They left there around two years ago to live in Kharkiv. None of this, of course, in any way justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, it is important to be clear about facts.

The demographics of the 4 oblasts are vastly Ukrainian and even most Russian speakers pre- ‘gun against the head’ now, considered themselves Ukrainian. They’re Ukrainian lands, end of story.

Whilst shit stirring Putin’s genocidal war machine have had Ukraine in its sights, after illegally invading and waging war in several Caucasus nations. Committing atrocities such as the murder of those on Flight 17.

All Ukrainians wanted was a quiet life.

Putin engineered this many years ago, famously claiming:
Already long before the Ukraine crisis, at an April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Vladimir Putin reportedly claimed that “Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!”
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/...ng-the-kremlins-version-of-ukrainian-history/

 

[Baldseagull]

I would be surprised if SAS and SBS/Seals weren't on the ground for intelligence gathering somewhere, in constant comms. with
their US friends/counterparts.

A number of former Special Forces men, UK and US have been employed as trainers by Ukraine, working in Poland and Ukraine.

 

[Baldseagull]

What would happen if Ukraine officially became part of NATO, for argument's sake say on Jan 1st 2023.
Would we simply then say to Prickin: 'one more missile or attack in Ukraine by you and we'll consider
that an attack on NATO'?

One condition of joining NATO is that you have no border disputes with anyone. Putin snatching Crimea effectively had blocked Ukraine from joining, even if they had spent the money on defence to the level required.

 

[Baldseagull]

I’m no expert, but I had thought that Donetsk and Luhansk only became breakaway republics because they were invaded by Russia. From what I’ve read the occupation of those lands has changed many times over hundreds of years and pre 2014 there were no doubt many Russian speaking people there with a strong affinity to Russia. But in the 21st century, that’s no excuse to invade another country. Unfortunately it seems to have been Russian policy for many years to encourage Russians to set up home in former soviet satellite countries, giving them a reason to be able to take military action to “protect” them. Ukraine may not be the last country where we see this happening.

South Ossettia is a similar. Even now, over night Russians literally move the border a little further into Georgia, some people find their house that was in Georgia when they went to bed, is in South Ossettia when they wake up.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Save your breath, the guy is clearly a Putin sympathiser. He can't see the wood from the trees.

He suggested that Ukraine was shelling Ukraine, not sure why Ukraine would want to destroy its own country. Its an oxymoron.

Russia started this war in 2014, after the Maidain revolution and because Putin knew he was losing influence in the region. He decided to then send in his "little green men" as a rouse to cause unrest, and then sent in their own troops to back the "separatists" (these ofcourse were just Russian troops in the first instance) - calling this a "breakaway militia" is disturbing, unsettling and, actually, Russian propaganda. This is what the Russians wanted you to believe. Its bullshit. Its almost 9 years later and I can't believe people are still peddling this rubbish.

Think there is slightly more to it than Russian soldiers, there were clearly elements of Ukraine that did not want to be associated with Ukraine and preferred Russia, not surprising given their closeness geographically and that ethnically there are many Russian in these areas who had moved them prior to 1991. How many these numbered is difficult to assess and impossible now given the mess. Putin exploited these pockets - same as he did in Cechnia and Georgia to justify his ambition to rebuilt the Russian empire. The Russians were genuinely surprised when what were perceived as Russian cities e.g. Mauripol and Odessa did not join their side. In Odessa Russian was the primary language, i say 'was' because I am not sure if people do speak it now to enforce Ukrainian solidarity,.

 

[Baldseagull]

Save your breath, the guy is clearly a Putin sympathiser. He can't see the wood from the trees.

He suggested that Ukraine was shelling Ukraine, not sure why Ukraine would want to destroy its own country. Its an oxymoron.

Russia started this war in 2014, after the Maidain revolution and because Putin knew he was losing influence in the region. He decided to then send in his "little green men" as a rouse to cause unrest, and then sent in their own troops to back the "separatists" (these ofcourse were just Russian troops in the first instance) - calling this a "breakaway militia" is disturbing, unsettling and, actually, Russian propaganda. This is what the Russians wanted you to believe. Its bullshit. Its almost 9 years later and I can't believe people are still peddling this rubbish.

All the fighting is taking place in Ukraine, of course Ukraine is shelling Ukraine, and it was in 2014.