[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[GT49er]

No, it wasn't being poked, but it currently is (and again, rightly so), and Putin is feeling it, too. The question is, how hard do you poke, knowing the potential outcome for all?
As I said earlier, it's a long game and yes, horrendous for Ukraine, but poking to far/hard too soon will do nobody any favours.

No, it is not being poked. It is being contained (just about).

 

[birthofanorange]

No, it is not being poked. It is being contained (just about).

I disagree; sanctions equate to being poked, most of the world against you equates to being poked, having the West supplying weapons equates to being poked.
All these things are good, of course.

 

[birthofanorange]

Well let’s go and sit on Rampion wind farm with a bottle of rum and watch it all burn!

Worse things happen at sea, I guess.

 

[GT49er]

I disagree; sanctions equate to being poked, most of the world against you equates to being poked, having the West supplying weapons equates to being poked.
All these things are good, of course.

Agree with your last sentence. Only agree with your last sentence!

Deluded perceptions of some Russian c*** might see it differently, but that is their delusion.

 

[GT49er]

Worse things happen at sea, I guess.

Might be safer in mid Atlantic, I suppose ....................

 

[A1X]

So that the Ukrainians fight our battles for us and pay with Armageddon for themselves ? Doesn’t sound the most moral of arguments.

I can quite happily morally justify not ending civilisation and all life on planet earth.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's not - but we haven't really got a viable alternative at this stage. Any suggestions?

Nope, I’m just glad I’m not Ukrainian, given how easily they are being offered up to the Russians.

 

[GT49er]

I can quite happily morally justify not ending civilisation and all life on planet earth.

I can qute happily justify any sort of mass slaughter of women and children (and civilian, non-combattant men too) as long as it means I'm safe. Pull up the ladder after you.

 

[beorhthelm]

How do you know they haven't worked so far?

well the continued shelling and bombing for a start. Russia might be weakend but not really stopped their war. they arent getting far because of the resilience of the Ukrainians, not half hearted sanctions. Russia will tolerate a lot more hardship with a population uninformed and blaming the sanctions. happens every time, just entrenches governments, like Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea. doesnt really change their mind about their course of action. we cant not have the sanctions, they just arent going to resolve anything either.

 

[birthofanorange]

well the continued shelling and bombing for a start. Russia might be weakend but not really stopped their war. they arent getting far because of the resilience of the Ukrainians, not half hearted sanctions. Russia will tolerate a lot more hardship with a population uninformed and blaming the sanctions. happens every time, just entrenches governments, like Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea. doesnt really change their mind about their course of action. we cant not have the sanctions, they just arent going to resolve anything either.

The resilience of Ukraine is being constantly bolstered by the West, only falling short of directly entering the conflict. Yes, Russia IS being weakened and will continue to be, as well as the sanctions taking effect - which they are, quite clearly.
It's a far from ideal situation, but other than pile in, guns blazing, there's not a lot more we can currently do.

 

[Baldseagull]

I disagree; sanctions equate to being poked, most of the world against you equates to being poked, having the West supplying weapons equates to being poked.
All these things are good, of course.

The problem is that Russia was not poked strongly enough after annexing Crimea.

 

[birthofanorange]

The problem is that Russia was not poked strongly enough after annexing Crimea.

That may well be true, but that horse has bolted and we're now where we are. As has been asked many times here, other than entering into direct conflict with Russia, right now, what more do you suggest we can do?

 

[A1X]

I can qute happily justify any sort of mass slaughter of women and children (and civilian, non-combattant men too) as long as it means I'm safe. Pull up the ladder after you.

So you’d rather everyone died rather than just that some died, if we assume death is inevitable in this situation?

 

[Insel affe]

And if he does? Well let’s go and sit on Rampion wind farm with a bottle of rum and watch it all burn!

I have suffered from nightmares ever since I was young, I knew at a young age I would marry a foreign girl, I’ve had countless lucky escapes from death, or serious injury because I’ve suddenly decided not to do something (I was booked on the train that crashed at potters bar) or I’ve lost my passport on one occasion which was 7/7 and we should have been on the tube. Anyway I’ve always been adamant that I will see the end of days, and had a dream as a teenager that I was stood on the top of a hill with a girl with a tattoo on her back looking down at a seaside town watching the end.
I now know that girl as my wife, and that hill is the other side of the racecourse looking down on Brighton….

So that’s where I will be, not bloody rampion wind farm, any way I get sea sick, but the rum, hell yeah

Bring it on, this world is shite anyway.

 

[birthofanorange]

I have suffered from nightmares ever since I was young, I knew at a young age I would marry a foreign girl, I’ve had countless lucky escapes from death, or serious injury because I’ve suddenly decided not to do something (I was booked on the train that crashed at potters bar) or I’ve lost my passport on one occasion which was 7/7 and we should have been on the tube. Anyway I’ve always been adamant that I will see the end of days, and had a dream as a teenager that I was stood on the top of a hill with a girl with a tattoo on her back looking down at a seaside town watching the end.
I now know that girl as my wife, and that hill is the other side of the racecourse looking down on Brighton….

So that’s where I will be, not bloody rampion wind farm, any way I get sea sick, but the rum, hell yeah

Bring it on, this world is shite anyway.

The world isn't shite, it just seems that way due to the actions of a few nutters who hold power. The vast majority of people are decent and deserve better than to die at the hands of those few.
Great dreams, by the way, and if you have any re: lottery numbers, can you pass them on before it's too late? Ta'.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The world isn't shite, it just seems that way due to the actions of a few nutters who hold power. The vast majority of people are decent and deserve better than to die at the hands of those few.
Great dreams, by the way, and if you have any re: lottery numbers, can you pass them on before it's too late? Ta'.

Yeh, probably I won't post details of the dreams I remember having as a teenager.

I'll add my name to those arguing, that we at some point need to face Putin or Putinism down and so at some point will need to accept the increased risk that entails. I don't want to fry, but I don't want to watch from over the street as a big guy beats up a little guy either. We should be ramping up the arms sales and ramping up the sanctions, which incidentally I believe are doing a good job. I'd love to see Russia decrease in economic strength and political significance as some of the nations quoted have.

 

[GT49er]

So you’d rather everyone died rather than just that some died, if we assume death is inevitable in this situation?

No, I'd rather not. But there were many survivors of the blitz and Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Not odds I'd like, but neither do I want, ultimately, to become a colonial annexe of Russia. You choose.

 

[Baldseagull]

That may well be true, but that horse has bolted and we're now where we are. As has been asked many times here, other than entering into direct conflict with Russia, right now, what more do you suggest we can do?

Stop worrying that we are poking the bear by supporting Ukraine.

 

[Insel affe]

The world isn't shite, it just seems that way due to the actions of a few nutters who hold power. The vast majority of people are decent and deserve better than to die at the hands of those few.
Great dreams, by the way, and if you have any re: lottery numbers, can you pass them on before it's too late? Ta'.

Tend to disagree about the vast majority of people being decent, the vast majority are not decent, they are selfish, and greedy, arrogant and needy.
Push comes to shove, people will step over or around you, religion is utterly pointless in this day and age, politicians, business, banks and leaders feed off the weak and ply able, we are nothing but very tiny cogs in a wheel of destruction. We have destroyed this world, with greed and carelessness, and unless there is a magical reset button, that all on the planet can agree too, that is the destination for humankind and we are not learning the lessons of the past, but repeat, repeat, repeating them until now, we have the capability to destroy ourselves.


Apart from that, I’m a glass half full kinda guy.

 

[A1X]

No, I'd rather not. But there were many survivors of the blitz and Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Not odds I'd like, but neither do I want, ultimately, to become a colonial annexe of Russia. You choose.

Russia is not going to annex the UK. It can’t even annex the bit of Ukraine right next to Russia where apparently the locals were all super keen on being Russian. If it wasn’t for nuclear weapons then NATO could take Moscow in a week while hardly breaking sweat.