[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

It is SINISTER.



Putin OUT, Fletch IN.

Indeed, as opposed to being dextrous

 

[nicko31]

I dunno.
Would be better if Austria, say, weren't in NATO, then jets could fly to Ukraine from there. If Russia then threaten Austria (land-locked), NATO can just close it's airspace around them to Russian aircraft.
Sorry, Austria, nothing personal.

Flying over NATO airspace, I'm not sure Russia would see it any differently

 

[The Clamp]

Very well said.

A thread titled " I want to prove I know tonnes about the second world war" would keep those who want to show off that they've been paying attention to the masses and masses of history channel that they watch.

Another thread entitled "what's the precise definition of nuclear war" would allow people who are interested to really drill into the minutiae of whether it could be called one if only one side has them.

I suppose it could also have the added advantage of allowing those who want to catch up on the current crisis in Ukraine the ability to do so without wading through pages of completely irrelevant disagreements.

Give me a break, it was one reply to one post. Your post is about twenty times the length of the entire exchange. Why bother? It’s been dropped. I suggest you do the same.
Please don’t reply and extend the debate you don’t want.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1501483930679136260[/tweet]

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, you are right. I still don't get it either. I mean I understand the US's reasoning to a degree, but no-one's talking about the option you've described. Surely they can be partly disassembled and taken across the border on trucks (as the anti tank, stinger missiles have been).

Have all weapons that have been sent to Ukraine been disassembled before being sent? I didn't know that.

Still, I like to think that the main reason these jets aren't being sent is simply because the military advisors don't think they're particularly needed. We're either sending weapons to help Ukraine defend or we're not, it shouldn't matter what they are.

 

[Lower West Stander]

News headline just out saying Russian Foreign Ministry stating operations aims to do not include overthrowing Ukraine Government.

Markets up hard today - mood music may (that being the operative word) be shifting....

 

[portslade seagull]

Ukraine defence site now advising the 40km convoy isn't quite as long

 

[Triggaaar]

Maybe we should take the discussion of whether the Second World War was a nuclear war somewhere else?

Very well said.

A thread titled " I want to prove I know tonnes about the second world war" would keep those who want to show off that they've been paying attention to the masses and masses of history channel that they watch.

Another thread entitled "what's the precise definition of nuclear war" would allow people who are interested to really drill into the minutiae of whether it could be called one if only one side has them.

I suppose it could also have the added advantage of allowing those who want to catch up on the current crisis in Ukraine the ability to do so without wading through pages of completely irrelevant disagreements.

Sweet Jesus, it was about 5 posts total or something? Hardly a big deal. You're going to end up with more posts discussing whether those 5 posts should be posted elsewhere. Maybe you should take your discussion of whether that discussion should be elsewhere, elsewhere.

I saw I was quoted, I replied. Hardly a big deal?

Exactly. And I thumbed up your reply. And someone else replied and I said I disagreed with them, which was all I had to say.

And now we have to justify half a dozen posts

 

[A1X]

News headline just out saying Russian Foreign Ministry stating operations aims to do not include overthrowing Ukraine Government.

Markets up hard today - mood music may (that being the operative word) be shifting....

Yep, hard to see this as anything other than the start of a climbdown, and presumably an admission that the Russians don't think they can take and hold Kyiv.

 

[raymondo]

Have all weapons that have been sent to Ukraine been disassembled before being sent? I didn't know that.

Still, I like to think that the main reason these jets aren't being sent is simply because the military advisors don't think they're particularly needed. We're either sending weapons to help Ukraine defend or we're not, it shouldn't matter what they are.

I didn't mean the anti-tank missiles had been disassembled, only that they'd been taken across the border by truck.
To me, it does seem as if the weapon specifics matter: anti tank=yes, stinger missiles=yes, fighter jets=no I expect it's more complicated than that...

 

[raymondo]

Yep, hard to see this as anything other than the start of a climbdown, and presumably an admission that the Russians don't think they can take and hold Kyiv.

That would be nice, or it's just more lies, as they've been dishing out since doing their military training around the borders

 

[Triggaaar]

Yep, hard to see this as anything other than the start of a climbdown, and presumably an admission that the Russians don't think they can take and hold Kyiv.

Putin would have liked to remove the Ukraine government, install a puppet government, and possibly had Ukrainians 'vote' to join Russia later. Seeing that in order to take control of Ukraine he'd have to level the great historical city of Kyiv, I wonder if he's having second thoughts?

We can but hope, right?

 

[Triggaaar]

I didn't mean the anti-tank missiles had been disassembled, only that they'd been taken across the border by truck.

Well it wouldn't be much use firing them over

To me, it does seem as if the weapon specifics matter: anti tank=yes, stinger missiles=yes, fighter jets=no

Well that does seem to be the artificial idea the west has made up. I personally can't see the logic. The jets wouldn't be used to fly into Russia, they'd be used for the same purpose as they anti-tank and stinger missiles, plus possibly bombing Ukrainian bridges (which is less lethal than the other weapons being used).

For now I'm going to keep hoping that they aren't needed.

 

[Eric the meek]

I work in the financial markets so get real time headlines from my Bloomberg screens which I can't share I'm afraid.

The best publicly available stuff is agency feeds from the likes of Reuters and TASS the Russian agency is worth a look too. Bloomberg also has a public site which is pretty useful.

Tbh - beyond the horrible humanitarian stories reported by the mainstream press which are very worthy in drawing our attention to the personal level of the war, I haven't paid much attention to their commentaries on the situation.

Thanks for that.

I was aware of Bloomberg and Reuters public sites, but it didn't occur to me to look at TASS for a market perspective.

I've tried to distance myself from the humanitarian stories of late, after I found it affected me quite badly last week. Now I'm channeling my anger watching/hoping that the Russian economy is being slowly destroyed.

 

[Rowdey]

I simply said I disagree with you and why (I thought disagreement was allowed) and you're in with the insults. Nice.

Oh come on, i quite like your self confessed dogmatic/fine detail/minutia (did someone say rabid? ) approach to discussion's on here..but he had a good point

 

[Lower West Stander]

That would be nice, or it's just more lies, as they've been dishing out since doing their military training around the borders

Who knows?

I think its more about a reduction in the chance of a serious war escalation - but we're all scratching out around trying to get the real meaning.

They keep coming though - Russian Ministry now saying it would be better if goals are achieved through talks.

 

[peterward]

Flying over NATO airspace, I'm not sure Russia would see it any differently

Russia actually said if NATO bases were used, and that is entirely different if Ukraine was flying sorties from Poland, than just taking delivery once, landing in Ukraine and then operational sorties flown within Ukraine.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

News headline just out saying Russian Foreign Ministry stating operations aims to do not include overthrowing Ukraine Government.

Markets up hard today - mood music may (that being the operative word) be shifting....

The problem is that same voice was constantly repeating that Russia wasn't going to invade. And then it did.


Let's see Putin making good on the first statement by withdrawing troops before believing the second.

 

[Eric the meek]

'We are not co-operating': Life in occupied Ukraine'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60670173

Yet another story of brave Ukrainians, facing down Russian aggression.

 

[birthofanorange]

A nuclear war is a war in which nuclear weapons are used, so I disagree with you.

Which is why I said it 'seems' inevitable.

Good God.


Anyway, I was quite surprised to actually wake up at all, this morning, as I really didn't envisage the US turning down Poland's offer.
I guess the Doomsday Clock is running a little slower, today, but I'd also like to express my sympathies to [MENTION=35481]raymondo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=30492]Peter Ward[/MENTION] who have a more directly personal interest in this disgusting war.