[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[peterward]

Look, I would be the first to admit, I knew very little about Ukraine beyond the somewhat sketchy coup in 2014. I've only just started trying to understand what is going on in the last week or so, and it just seems to me that there are two narratives. The one before this war started, and the one since.

I can only preface everything with "from what I've read". But, from what I have read, what you are saying is seriously downplaying the situation.

I read this article today from TheNation (written in 2019), and I even did a "media bias" check to make sure I'm not reading something from a skewed perspective, it's tough figuring out what should and shouldn't be believed right now.

It's extremely detailed and well sourced, and it's really quite a worrying read. It also addresses your point about "seats in the parliament" etc.



It doesn't change the fact that this war is truely awful, and should not be happening. But if what I am reading is true, I am shocked that I would never have known it or believed it if I stuck to watching the TV news over the past few weeks. I'm not saying that anyone should be any less against what is going on. Everyone should be against war, all war. But something about there being such a blind spot when it comes to this stuff, which I think we should never have a blind spot to, does make me quite uncomfortable.

Especially when you consider the enormous amount of military hardware, funding and even people joining the fight, all heading to Ukraine right now.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-nation/

I've mentioned the reasons before why out of neccesity the battalion was formed, but it's just not true they're marauding on streets.

They're as visible I'd guess as BNP or Britain first, a tiny marginalised sub section with no place in mainstream at all. You'll never see them if you ever go.

I'd guess the article is written by a well meaning liberal who is getting a distorted view simply because they're political views are abhorrent. And what deluded white supremacist group in the world doesn't aspire to change the whole world, they all do and they all never will

There's a confusion about views and role it plays in society. It's zero.

The role it plays in military is one fighting battalion of troops, fighting to the same orders as other troops under military command/control.

Wether you're a regular soldier, an Azov, a civilian, you're all just fighting against a foreign invader. and that's all

If you haven't seen this, it's a must to understand what you and Moscow call a coup..... It was popular uprising (like they had in Belarus and Kazakhstan - both crushed)

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

This is in sympatico with Johnson’s latest narrative of “we can’t blame all Russians. It’s not Russia v The West”
Laying the ground to let his chums off the hook.

So,

Brexit
Give him another chance
Covid deaths
Give him a higher chance
Covid parties
Give him another chance
Letting his chums slip through the sanctions net
Give him a other chance

Wake up!

Johnson is right in that not all Russians living here are to blame.

But the suspicion is that he is using them as cover for those guilty ones that for whatever reason seem to have undue influence over Johnson.

 

[The Clamp]

Johnson is right in that not all Russians living here are to blame.

But the suspicion is that he is using them as cover for those guilty ones that for whatever reason seem to have undue influence over him.

Well of course they are not. That isn’t in question.
It’s my firm belief he is going to let his pals slip through the net using the narrative of “not all Russians are bad” and it’s disgusting that he then says “we mustn’t fall into Putin’s trap”.

The man knows no shame. There are not depths he will not sink to. But I am sure we are stuck with him for a very long time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A very hard hitting monologue about Ukrainian refugees trying to join family in Britain.

[tweet]1501154805976375299[/tweet]

 

[herecomesaregular]

Another angle on matters….a Ukrainian hotline for missing Russian soldiers (no reason to doubt its authenticity)

https://youtu.be/1f-5bAy2En0

That was an uncomfortable watch. Desperate family members are desperate family members, regardless of which side of the war they are on. Seems just a propaganda tool on the Ukrainian side.

 

[The Clamp]

A very hard hitting monologue about Ukrainian refugees trying to join family in Britain.

[tweet]1501154805976375299[/tweet]

Will you not just give them another chance?

 

[The Clamp]

That was an uncomfortable watch. Desperate family members are desperate family members, regardless of which side of the war they are on. Seems just a propaganda tool on the Ukrainian side.

How so?

 

[nicko31]

Well of course they are not. That isn’t in question.
It’s my firm belief he is going to let his pals slip through the net using the narrative of “not all Russians are bad” and it’s disgusting that he then says “we mustn’t fall into Putin’s trap”.

The man knows no shame. There are not depths he will not sink to. But I am sure we are stuck with him for a very long time.

Beggars belief how Evgeny Lebedev actually has the Title "Lord of Hampton and Siberia".

When i first heard this I thought it was a joke, but no that actually is his title. Putin must just love that...

 

[herecomesaregular]

That was an uncomfortable watch. Desperate family members are desperate family members, regardless of which side of the war they are on. Seems just a propaganda tool on the Ukrainian side.

There's no information for them to give to the family but they use the opportunity to tell them what's going on. While I can see the need and logic to get the true story back into Russia it doesn't sit very well with me (because of who the caller is). Hope that's ok with you?

edit - cocked up the reply with quote there. Meant to be a reply to the "How So?" from Clamp

 

[Thunder Bolt]

To add balance, Sir Roger Gale is a Tory MP.

[tweet]1501151658235027460[/tweet]

https://twitter.com/SirRogerGale/status/1501151658235027460

 

[The Clamp]

Beggars belief how Evgeny Lebedev actually has the Title "Lord of Hampton and Siberia".

When i first heard this I thought it was a joke, but no that actually is his title. Putin must just love that...

For me, there is no doubt that Boris Johnson is pretty much doing the bidding of oligarchs and Russian financiers. I am intrigued to know how he felt when the invasion began. Probably a mix of “thank God the heat is off me over domestic issues” and “oh shit, this going to be very tricky, I’d best come up with some lies and whataboutery”.

Will we ever get to the truth? Will we bollocks.

 

[LamieRobertson]

That was an uncomfortable watch. Desperate family members are desperate family members, regardless of which side of the war they are on. Seems just a propaganda tool on the Ukrainian side.

Definitely uncomfortable….I was trying to put aside the propaganda ‘side’ …which I guess is part of it..a difficult job for the lady to do

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1500962068119314435[/tweet]

 

[The Clamp]

There's no information for them to give to the family but they use the opportunity to tell them what's going on. While I can see the need and logic to get the true story back into Russia it doesn't sit very well with me (because of who the caller is). Hope that's ok with you?

edit - cocked up the reply with quote there. Meant to be a reply to the "How So?" from Clamp

Apologies, yes I see what you are saying. My bad.

 

[nicko31]

For me, there is no doubt that Boris Johnson is pretty much doing the bidding of oligarchs and Russian financiers. I am intrigued to know how he felt when the invasion began. Probably a mix of “thank God the heat is off me over domestic issues” and “oh shit, this going to be very tricky, I’d best come up with some lies and whataboutery”.

Will we ever get to the truth? Will we bollocks.

Wars always an create an opportunity to be Prime Ministerial, remember Thatcher and the tank moment. She was on the ropes before that

Johnson would be glad if the police report was out ASAP before the media get bored with Ukraine. Right now, its as a good time as any

 

[herecomesaregular]

Apologies, yes I see what you are saying. My bad.

Not that I can criticise them for doing it because War is deeply unpleasant and unfair. Watching the video just made me feel terribly sad.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Will you not just give them another chance?

Quite. Why are people so quick to judge the Government, let’s wait and see what their full plans for Ukrainian refugees are. We should be giving them a number of months to get this sorted, it’s not a quick process.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Definitely uncomfortable….I was trying to put aside the propaganda ‘side’ …which I guess is part of it..a difficult job for the lady to do

I guess she is doing her bit for her country (who wouldn't) but what a role to take on (who would) - in some way twisting the knife into relatives of the missing. How to turn their enquiries about a loved one they have lost contact with (of which you will have no info) into a conversation about what is really happening rather than what they think is happening (for those callers from Russia anyhow). Maybe it's because I have worked in a call centre this has really struck me. Bloody awful for all (and yes, I know, no shit Sherlock).

 

[Baldseagull]

[tweet]1501117959246331913[/tweet]

Play the role of tough guy standing up to Putin's murderous regime, secretly let your rich pals sell stuff 9ff?

It does look that way, I might be happier about it if he could state why.

 

[highflyer]

It does look that way, I might be happier about it if he could state why.

I'm undecided.

It's certainly part of a very long pattern (gong back through more than one poliical party in power) and it may simply be a continued defence of an ideologically driven broad commitment to building an economy based around attracting and protecting wealth.

As I've said before a lot of the 'urgent' regulation being rushed through has been on the books for years and this government, like those before, have been very deliberately dragging their heels (and holding back others) when it comes to implementing any kind of transparency around extreme wealth

Or it may be more specific to particular Russian interests and influence.

Either way, I don't think it's inappropriate to be pointing out the patterns and asking difficult questions.