[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Deportivo Seagull]

A couple of things to consider.
1) militarily Russia are a mess , it will take years to sort their shit out
2) economically they are a mess, again it will take years to address.
3) Europe is getting its shit together and whilst it will take a while it’s way ahead of Russia
4) Trump can do what he likes during talks with Putin but he’s 5,000 miles away so he may as well be on mars. Logistically him trying to put US feet on the ground in Ukraine is nigh on impossible. He could of course throw his hand in with Putin but he will get little support from either military, republicans or anyone else. Trump has similar problems to Farage in that two thirds of his fan base are virulently anti Putin.
5) Trump wants Canada because he’s a f***ing idiot but there is no way in hell would the US military agree to that.
6) Russia are a busted flush, Ukraine has shown that they are not invincible and that they can be taken. If Europe decided to push Russia out of The occupied territories then it could.
7) What odds that the eastern and western states start pushing to ceed from the Union?

 

[Albion my Albion]

7) What odds that the eastern and western states start pushing to ceed from the Union?

Very small odds.

 

[Igzilla]

7) What odds that the eastern and western states start pushing to ceed from the Union?

Very small odds.

It's my understanding that once you're part of the USA, that's it, you can't leave, at least that's what the Civil War determined - there is no constitutional way to secede.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

It's my understanding that once you're part of the USA, that's it, you can't leave, at least that's what the Civil War determined - there is no constitutional way to secede.

Literally Hotel California.

 

[Eric the meek]

I agree except I don't think any 'ceasefire' will see Putin's troops walking off the battlefield - they'll be kept there, partly for the reason you give, but also because they'll be doing daily false flags and mini incursions.

Yes, you are probably right about the ceasefire - if it happens.

I shouldn't have used the word ceasefire, which I feel is unlikely to happen. Perhaps I should have used 'when the war is over' or 'when Russia finally collapses' etc. Then, when the troops return home, things could be dicey for Putin.

 

[Mellotron]

Yes, you are probably right about the ceasefire - if it happens.

I shouldn't have used the word ceasefire, which I feel is unlikely to happen. Perhaps I should have used 'when the war is over' or 'when Russia finally collapses' etc. Then, when the troops return home, things could be dicey for Putin.

It seems to me that Putin's actual life depends on this war. Once it ends, he ends. IMO.

Whether that's in 3 years or 15.

 

[raymondo]

Go to 9.40 for a fun short clip

 

[Eric the meek]

It seems to me that Putin's actual life depends on this war. Once it ends, he ends. IMO.

Whether that's in 3 years or 15.

I think that is correct.

What it may also mean is that Trump's peace process a tad unlikely. Or Putin may go along with it, but then ignore it, or delay, obfuscate etc. As others have said, he may use false flags, blaming Ukraine etc.

Or is it conceivable he may fulfill the terms of the peace agreement, park Ukraine, and just circumvent it and start another war elsewhere? Can't keep all those troops idle. And he certainly won't want them back in Russia. He has already experienced a Wagner convoy on its way to Moscow.

 

[raymondo]

I think that is correct.

What it may also mean is that Trump's peace process a tad unlikely. Or Putin may go along with it, but then ignore it, or delay, obfuscate etc. As others have said, he may use false flags, blaming Ukraine etc.

Or is it conceivable he may fulfill the terms of the peace agreement, park Ukraine, and just circumvent it and start another war elsewhere? Can't keep all those troops idle. And he certainly won't want them back in Russia. He has already experienced a Wagner convoy on its way to Moscow.

Yes ""Can't keep all those troops idle. And he certainly won't want them back in Russia. He has already experienced a Wagner convoy on its way to Moscow."

that sounds about right. Probably a portion could go to Mali, Somalia etc to kill some folk and grab some gold, but not all of them.

 

[raymondo]

Go to 9.40 for a fun short clip

Another fun part of Jake's excellent video (it has the expected depressing shit about Trump and Musk - painful but necessary)...is that Portugal has cancelled it's order for F35 fighter jets, and will instead order European jets

 

[Triggaaar]

Go to 9.40 for a fun short clip

Ah, like when he asked about disinfectant and UV in the body to combat covid. He needs some new excuses.

 

[Eric the meek]

*Another fun part of Jake's excellent video (it has the expected depressing shit about Trump and Musk - painful but necessary)...is that Portugal has cancelled it's order for F35 fighter jets, and will instead order European jets

'We're going to do you a big favour and sell you our extortionate fighter planes. But we reserve the right to switch them off remotely if we don't agree with how you plan to use them. There will be an additional charge for this enhanced functionality'.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

It's my understanding that once you're part of the USA, that's it, you can't leave, at least that's what the Civil War determined - there is no constitutional way to secede.

It is becoming clear that the USA is becoming too divided to operate as as a coherent nation. It's not clear how this can be resolved as there is no common ground or even agreement on what constitutes reality. You can't put this all down to years of Russian online activity but we must be be very vigilant as we will be the next major target.

 

[cunning fergus]

A couple of things to consider.
1) militarily Russia are a mess , it will take years to sort their shit out
2) economically they are a mess, again it will take years to address.
3) Europe is getting its shit together and whilst it will take a while it’s way ahead of Russia
4) Trump can do what he likes during talks with Putin but he’s 5,000 miles away so he may as well be on mars. Logistically him trying to put US feet on the ground in Ukraine is nigh on impossible. He could of course throw his hand in with Putin but he will get little support from either military, republicans or anyone else. Trump has similar problems to Farage in that two thirds of his fan base are virulently anti Putin.
5) Trump wants Canada because he’s a f***ing idiot but there is no way in hell would the US military agree to that.
6) Russia are a busted flush, Ukraine has shown that they are not invincible and that they can be taken. If Europe decided to push Russia out of The occupied territories then it could.
7) What odds that the eastern and western states start pushing to ceed from the Union?

Without covering the old ground too much.

Assuming 1), 2) and 3) are correct.

Do you consider “Europe” to be a unified entity in which all countries are acting in unison? If so, under whose leadership would that take place, i.e NATO, EU or something else?

Can “Europe” push Russia out of Ukraine now, if not how long till it can?

What kind of size of army would “Europe” need, and what rate of casualties do you think it would sustain pushing Russia out, (dead and injured).

You’re the expert…….genuinely interested.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

It is becoming clear that the USA is becoming too divided to operate as as a coherent nation. It's not clear how this can be resolved as there is no common ground or even agreement on what constitutes reality. You can't put this all down to years of Russian online activity but we must be be very vigilant as we will be the next major target.

We have already been targeted. That's what Brexit was all about. For decades, only loons wanted to leave the EU, but one of Russia's key geopolitical goals is to destroy the bloc with prising the UK away as its first step. Therefore, they threw their efforts into manipulating public opinion by amplifing anti-EU voices and pumping social media full of disinformation. This was around the same time the Conservatives had their 'Friends of Russia' group. Few people seem to question how leaving the EU went from fringe idea to mainstream priority in such a short time. https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/poli...-russia-group-disbands-with-immediate-effect/

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

I think we can add 'Jesus Christ complex' to all his other personality disorders.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Without covering the old ground too much.

Assuming 1), 2) and 3) are correct.

Do you consider “Europe” to be a unified entity in which all countries are acting in unison? If so, under whose leadership would that take place, i.e NATO, EU or something else?

Can “Europe” push Russia out of Ukraine now, if not how long till it can?

What kind of size of army would “Europe” need, and what rate of casualties do you think it would sustain pushing Russia out, (dead and injured).

You’re the expert…….genuinely interested.

Don’t take the piss as it makes you look a bigger prick than you already are. I have never said i was an expert, only that I have an interest and work in the industry.

Europe providing Ukraine with new kit will be more than enough to keep him in his box. It should address the shortfall if the US pull its support.

1 - 3 are correct otherwise Putin would be sat in Kyiv and you’d have run out of tissues.

The technological advances it kit and new technologies due to the introduction of drones makes number of ‘boots on the ground‘ an interesting question. i haven’t any idea but it should be remembered that occupied ukraine will have plenty of people who would support Ukraine. My view is that kit will be the issue rather than boots on the ground.
The wild card is Turkey and they really don’t like Putin or Russia.

I think we can add 'Jesus Christ complex' to all his other personality disorders.
View attachment 198600

He is just clueless

 

[Sirnormangall]

Macron makes a very important point. Russia does not have a veto on anything. Ukraine can join Nato or any other body if it chooses. It can invite any troops of any nation or alliance that it chooses. Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation.

Absolutely agree. If Zelensky insisted on having a veto on Russia using foreign troops (eg N Korea) I wonder what Putin’s response would be?

 

[Triggaaar]

'We're going to do you a big favour and sell you our extortionate fighter planes. But we reserve the right to switch them off remotely if we don't agree with how you plan to use them. There will be an additional charge for this enhanced functionality'.

It's mad isn't it.

 

[raymondo]

Ah, like when he asked about disinfectant and UV in the body to combat covid. He needs some new excuses.

Yeah, his sarcasm is hilarious...'like of course I knew disinfectant is really just for dabbing on, or drains ho ho ho '