[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

This is a good summary of where things are at and what’s needed. Nothing new in here, but it cuts through some noise.

The Charade of Ukraine Ceasefire Diplomacy

Talk of a 30 day ceasefire and a European-led security assurance force are a distraction. There is no peace plan, and Ukraine needs more weapons now.

open.substack.com

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

I put him on ignore a long time ago

So did I.

 

[A1X]

Do you think it's time we all sent Cunnilingus to Coventry?

What has Coventry done to deserve that?

 

[Eric the meek]

I put him on ignore a long time ago

Years ago, I remember some graffiti that used to be on the viaduct north of Preston Circus:

'What's the point of freedom of speech when nobody listens?'.

I reckon that was written by Cunning Fergus when he was an angry young man.
Today, he has matured into a troll on North Stand Chat.

 

[Eric the meek]

 

[Blues Guitarist]

I reckon that was written by Cunning Fergus when he was an angry young man.
Today, he has matured into a troll on North Stand Chat.

"Matured"?

 

[Eric the meek]

"Matured"?

I was being slightly facetious. Think not so much of a fine wine, but more of a cheese, and what happens to it, over time. One of those words.

 

[The Clamp]

As far as peace in Ukraine is concerned, Trump has become irrelevant overnight.

Headlines read;

“Trump to meet Putin soon”…



Irrelevant. Who gives a flick?

European troops are going into Ukraine.

This beautiful statement from Macron earlier today;

“Under no circumstances can the Ukrainians make territorial concessions without having any security guarantees.”

Moscow has firmly opposed such a deployment, but Macron said Russia’s permission was not needed. He said Ukraine was sovereign. “If Ukraine requests allied forces to be on its territory, it is not up to Russia to accept or reject them”


Oi! Putin ya wee baldy ****..
You’re going home in a f***ing ambulance.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

"Matured"?

lJust like a cheese and in his case Vieux Boulogne. So smelly in fact , that it got banned from public transport.

 

[Eric the meek]

As far as peace in Ukraine is concerned, Trump has become irrelevant overnight.

Headlines read;

“Trump to meet Putin soon”…



Irrelevant. Who gives a flick?

European troops are going into Ukraine.

This beautiful statement from Macron earlier today;

“Under no circumstances can the Ukrainians make territorial concessions without having any security guarantees.”

Moscow has firmly opposed such a deployment, but Macron said Russia’s permission was not needed. He said Ukraine was sovereign. “If Ukraine requests allied forces to be on its territory, it is not up to Russia to accept or reject them”


Oi! Putin ya wee baldy ****..
You’re going home in a f***ing ambulance.

Macron makes a very important point. Russia does not have a veto on anything. Ukraine can join Nato or any other body if it chooses. It can invite any troops of any nation or alliance that it chooses. Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation.

Trump made a fundamental mistake when he agreed to Russia's request to remove Gen. Keith Kellogg from the peace talks. What was he thinking of?

 

[raymondo]

I wonder what Trump thinks of Erdogan. He'll be conflicted, cos Erdogan is a strongarm leader, but is also supportive of Ukraine and wants to get in the EU (probably)

Macron makes a very important point. Russia does not have a veto on anything. Ukraine can join Nato or any other body if it chooses. It can invite any troops of any nation or alliance that it chooses. Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation.

Trump made a fundamental mistake when he agreed to Russia's request to remove Gen. Keith Kellogg from the peace talks. What was he thinking of?

He was thinking of not upsetting Putin, I'm sad to say

 

[peterward]

I wonder what Trump thinks of Erdogan

He was thinking of not upsetting Putin, I'm sad to say

He's our despot.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Macron makes a very important point. Russia does not have a veto on anything. Ukraine can join Nato or any other body if it chooses. It can invite any troops of any nation or alliance that it chooses. Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation.

True, but as things stand they will refuse any deal which includes either as a condition, unless they are really desperate for the war to end (or Putin and his cronies are gone).

It is, as Ned Flanders would say, a dilly of a pickle.

 

[The Clamp]

I wonder what Trump thinks of Erdogan

He was thinking of not upsetting Putin, I'm sad to say

I’m not sure when Trump climbed into bed with Putin. Probably back in the late 90’s?

But the Russian Fuhrer has got Trump by the clackers and he’s not letting go.

Trump’s backing of Putin will be his downfall. The world will never forgive Trump for what he is doing right now.

I personally think he needs stringing up alongside Putin once he’s defeated.

 

[Triggaaar]

"Matured"?

Like if you did a shit on the carpet and left it for a week

 

[Triggaaar]

This beautiful statement from Macron earlier today;

“Under no circumstances can the Ukrainians make territorial concessions without having any security guarantees.”

Moscow has firmly opposed such a deployment, but Macron said Russia’s permission was not needed. He said Ukraine was sovereign. “If Ukraine requests allied forces to be on its territory, it is not up to Russia to accept or reject them”


Oi! Putin ya wee baldy ****..
You’re going home in a f***ing ambulance.

I like the last half of it, but I don't like “Under no circumstances can the Ukrainians make territorial concessions without having any security guarantees” because it implies that they could make territorial concessions if there were security guarantees. My view is more “Under no circumstances can the Ukrainians make territorial concessions.”

Now temporary concessions, ok. But sanctions should remain until the land is returned to Ukraine.

This is actually quite simple. Ukraine and allies should never agree to Russia permanently annexing parts of Ukraine because:

1) If Russia is capable of continuing the fight, then they will, until they get the whole of Ukraine (this scenario includes Russia using a ceasefire to prepare for the next push).
2) If Russia accept a deal that means they keep what they've stolen so far, but also means security guarantees for Ukraine that stop Russia taking more (eg, Ukraine joins Nato and Nato troops move into Ukraine), then that means that Russia know they can't do 1)
3) If Russia knows they can't do 1), Ukraine and allies shouldn't let Russia permanently keep the land, because Russia knows they're going to lose.