[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Thanks. Hopefully Ukraine can get more Mirage jets. I read a while back that Sweden were also willing to donate Saab Grippen fighters.

Saab CEO still upbeat on prospect of Sweden sending Gripen fighter jets to Ukraine - Breaking Defense

Ideally, a long-term agreement would be struck, Saab CEO Micael Johansson told Breaking Defense, leading to a first squadron of C/D standard aircraft being delivered to Kyiv “sooner rather than later."

breakingdefense.com

Interesting detail in there. Some defense analysts say the Gripen would be the most suitable fighter jet for Ukraine, but NATO advised to hold off delivery as Ukrainian pilots were learning the F16.

 

[raymondo]

Interesting bit from Rory Stewart and Campbell podcast that we don't really know the shape of democrat opposition to the Trump teams effing behavior, because their system is different from our parliamentary one. For example:
- who is leading the Democrats charge?
- apart from occasional speeches by Sanders and a couple of senators, who is really leading the opposition ?
- are the Democrats analyzing in detail why/how they lost the election.
- we basically only hear what Trump's team is doing

 

[Triggaaar]

Not impossible but unlikely, Manitoba and Alberta would be the likeliest to give it a go, but if they are unhappy with their representation in Canada wait until they see how much power they will have in America.

I can't see how Canada would let that happen, as it would split the country in two.

 

[peterward]

I don't think Putin will get Ukraine, but you think America will invade Canada? Are you mad?

Democrats are.

 

[driddles]

I can't see how Canada would let that happen, as it would split the country in two.

It almost happened years ago when Quebec tried to leave. Oddly enough Quebec is one of our fiercest defenders against trump

 

[Triggaaar]

It almost happened years ago when Quebec tried to leave. Oddly enough Quebec is one of our fiercest defenders against trump

I'd think now more than ever, Canadians want nothing to do with America. But what happened when Quebec tried to leave - why didn't it?

 

[Eric the meek]

This thread has lost its way.

I can only shake my head. Three years we've been together. Three years, man and boy. Mostly boy. But haven't we had fun?

We need to return to our roots.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Nothing particularly new here, but well articulated.

A far-right empire: Trump’s America is Europe’s new enemy

The meaning of the US betrayal of Ukraine

open.substack.com

 

[driddles]

I'd think now more than ever, Canadians want nothing to do with America. But what happened when Quebec tried to leave - why didn't it?

1995 separation referendum Quebec voted to stay in Canada with 50.58% voting to stay. They said they would leave if 50% +1 vote said leave. Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread

 

[Eric the meek]

1995 separation referendum Quebec voted to stay in Canada with 50.58% voting to stay. They said they would leave if 50% +1 vote said leave. Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread

Please don't take me too seriously Driddles. I was only being facetious.

I am - genuinely - distraught that Canada has to contend with Trump and his insane ego.

 

[BadFish]

Yep, if he succeeds in bullying Ukraine into submission...then Europe's next.
The US needs to be treated for now as if it is Russia.

With the caveat that once they get their house in order they will be welcomed back to the fold. Albeit with the appropriate level of influence for a nation that has proven its potential to go rouge.

 

[Eric the meek]

Elon Musk is backpedalling.

 

[jessiejames]

I don't think Putin will get Ukraine, but you think America will invade Canada? Are you mad?

No not mad, but If I had said 12 weeks ago that Trump would be blaming Ukraine for starting this conflict and being defensive my ding Russia, I think I would be calling me mad.

 

[raymondo]

With the caveat that once they get their house in order they will be welcomed back to the fold. Albeit with the appropriate level of influence for a nation that has proven its potential to go rouge.

Yeah, if they get it in order maybe, but I can't see that for a while. They seem to be heading off into a Moscow sunset at the moment.

 

[Bodian]

Trump is already reported as telling aides that if Zelenskyy signs the deal it won’t be enough to restart the aid and intelligence sharing.

The only incentive he has to sign it is to prevent further vindictiveness, which seems unavoidable either way.

At this stage, he’s better off refusing - Trump is doing this because he’s realised what he thought would be easy to achieve is actually not possible. So now he’s trying to bully Ukraine because he’s obviously not going to try that with Putin.

why would Trump be saying that, why would aides being leaking it? seems a lot of reporting is reinforcing preconceptions. this one doesn't make any sense, if Trump doesn't want to support Ukraine he can simply stop supporting them (as apparently has done) and face the consequenes. if he does the mineral deal, and doesn't support Ukraine, US is seen as a dishonest broker and untrustworthy. eitherway, how does Trump benefit?

NBC reporting it though - whether that gives it any more credence I don't know.

Trump wants to see more than just a minerals deal to restart aid and intel to Ukraine

U.S. and Ukrainian officials are set to meet in Saudi Arabia this week, with Trump focused on Zelenskyy’s willingness to make concessions in negotiations.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Triggaaar]

No not mad, but If I had said 12 weeks ago that Trump would be blaming Ukraine for starting this conflict and being defensive my ding Russia, I think I would be calling me mad.

Is Trump mad enough to want to take over Canada - yes. But would American soldiers invade Canada - no.

 

[Triggaaar]

Elon Musk is backpedalling.

Good. I wonder why though?

 

[Eric the meek]

Good. I wonder why though?

I've searched high and low and I've drawn a complete blank. Some things in life are insoluble.

 

[driddles]

Good. I wonder why though?

We (Ontario) just cancelled a $100 million contract with Starlink in retaliation for trump's tariffs and with the intention of punishing the people who made trump possible. Maybe Elon is realizing he is putting more than his Tesla business at risk?

 

[Eric the meek]

We (Ontario) just cancelled a $100 million contract with Starlink in retaliation for trump's tariffs and with the intention of punishing the people who made trump possible. Maybe Elon is realizing he is putting more than his Tesla business at risk?

That last sentence.

I remember watching Elon in an interview in Dubai or some such place in about 2017. He was asked what his greatest challenge was. He answered to the effect that (at that stage) he was surrounded by people who agree with him. They all told him what they thought he wanted to hear. So he never got good, honest feedback. Until he got feedback from people who don't work for him.

Maybe being wealthy and powerful is self regulating.