[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Nobby]

Wake up. This is real not a game.
He's adding to the killing by removing the means for Ukrianains to defend themselves.

He is siding with the genocidal fascist. He's restored diplomatic relations, already discussed economic cooperation, voted with Russia, North Korea at UN and against all normal allies, offered Russia to keep all territory and this all before anyone has sat at a negotiating table.... Russia said today "US (Trumps) vision aligns with ours".

The plan is to give Putin what he wants, Trumps paroting Putins talking points, and then trying to arm twist and force the victim into capitulation, without any security that Putin won't do it all again in 2 years as he has every single time.

Do you realise just how many people have been murdered and raped in Ukraine by Putins troops?

And yet he's cut Ukraine out of talks, cut off their ability to defend themselves, called Zelensky a dcitator, accused him of starting war, against the murdering fascists that actually did.

If you think Trump isn't totally pro Russian you really need your head tested. He's got some weird fetish like obsession with Putin..... Putin is feeding him bullshit, massaging his ego and playing him like a fiddle while both real allies and Putins victims are suffering and being murdered.

The shooting stopping is not peace. And there will never be peace when Putin can and will return to destroy and murder again at time of his choosing if no proper security guarantees. (As he has done EVERY time).

America could have been tough on Putin. They have been the gift that keeps on giving. Trump is a dispicable human being, a compulsuve liar and a national security risk.

So well put here.

But you’re totally wasting your time with this troll.

He will never be persuaded. He is devoid of rational argument.

And he has no heart or moral courage very like the blackmailer he voted in

 

[raymondo]

F**king orange w*nker has only gone and done it.

"moving the line just a little bit more...' er no, it's worse than that.

 

[Insel affe]

I understand your anger,

not sure you do.

but my president has never sided with a genocidal fascist.

do you agree the Ukraine was invaded illigally by Russia ?
do you think it was right to meet with Russian top brass to discuss the Ukraine without them being present ?

He wants to end the killing.

does he really ?
he promised he could stop the war on day one of becoming president, no stipulations, no small print, he could simply stop it….

Don't you?
silly question.

Do you have a solution?
silly question

 

[SouthSaxon]

The financial settlement already agreed, the fund for rebuilding Ukraine

If the minerals belong to the U.S. I would be fairly certain that the U.S. will protect their financial assets but I don’t know what that would look like in terms of military

Neither does Ukraine and that’s a problem. Trump is telling Zelenskyy “sign this deal to find out what military support looks like”. He’s also, in effect, said “Trump is your security guarantee because Putin always sticks to what I agree with him”.

Vance has now said on Fox that America having an economic interest in Ukraine is a better security guarantee than military presence. As the NRA would say, “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a spreadsheet”.

Zelenskyy knows this is a stitch up and isn’t going along with it. So Trump is now trying to force an invaded country to surrender, by cutting off aid.

What they’re doing is utterly disgusting.

 

[sparkie]

Blimey.

What a thread.

 

[raymondo]

Yes, Waltz, I'm sure Zelenskiy regrets being ambushed by two Putin loving, vindictive, criminal arseholes...and you, Waltz are one and the same.

"U.S. President Donald Trump's administration wants to hear from Zelensky that he regrets the Oval Office clash, U.S. National Security Advisor Mike Waltz told Fox News on March 3.

"What we need to hear from President Zelensky is that he regrets what happened, that he's ready to sign this minerals deal, and that he's ready to engage in peace talks," Waltz said.

 

[vegster]

Im of the mind, that not only was the Oval office ambush staged to try and humiliate zelensky and force him to capitulate to Trump before then being forced to capitualte to Putin..... that because that didnt work, they're now moving onto another strategy for what was always the main Plan A, to cut off Ukraine military aid and try to help Putin.

If Zelensky had of capitualted in the Oval office before, then they would have tried to force on Zelensky into some shit deal, where Russia pretty much gets what it wants territorially, Ukraine gets nothing, No NATO, no reparations and no security guarantees, and when Ukraine refused that, it would've been "Zelensky doesnt want peace, we're cutting military aid".

Whatever path or option Zelensky had taken, all roads would have lead to Trump cutting off aid and trying to help Putin.

Yes, I think that this was inevitable and also sets the standard for Trump's " diplomacy " for the next four years. " Do as I want or else "

..I suggested recently we wind down cooperation with the US in anticipation of exactly just what has happened. The government is still hoping it can be a " Bridge " between Europe and the US but I really don't think we can be, when Trump does not get what he wants and he does not get the grovelling prostration he demands, he will lash out. Our turn is coming.

Europe needs to ramp up military production and face the fact that NATO hangs by a thread, in fact I'm sure Musk has already floated the idea of the US withdrawing from NATO. We need to be ready when it happens.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

F**king orange w*nker has only gone and done it.

Was there ever any serious doubt? He works for Putin.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

I understand your anger, but my president has never sided with a genocidal fascist. He wants to end the killing. Don't you? Do you have a solution?

Bollox. Are you blind?! He is so obviously pro Putin. 'Land of the free' my arse!

 

[beorhthelm]

reckon Zelensky has to go to US and kiss the ring as expected. as an actor he should ham it up: get the finest suit, literally get on bended knee and plead for assistance and sign "the deal", to make President look like the tyranical monarch. Trump would lap it up, but not a look that'll work well long term. there's also a matter of calling their bluff, get a few US contractors on the ground this week, into regions on front line, so Russia has to stop fighting. don't resist Trump, play his game to advantage.

 

[razer]

I understand your anger, but my president has never sided with a genocidal fascist. He wants to end the killing. Don't you? Do you have a solution?

Trump's assassination might work as a solution.

 

[A1X]

I understand your anger, but my president has never sided with a genocidal fascist. He wants to end the killing. Don't you? Do you have a solution?

You appear to be suffering from a form of Trump Derangement Syndrome, so blinded by your love of Trump that you cannot see what is happening right in front of you.

I don’t blame you. People who are the victims of con artists like Trump regularly deny they’ve fallen for it. Some go years without admitting it, as much to themselves as anyone else.

 

[fly high]

The fact that the US equity markets have started to tank will put extra pressure on Trump.
Trump supporters are focused on ‘what’s in it for them’ so I imagine his ratings will fall further.

Can we have a fingers crossed emoji because that's what I want to use here and on other posts.

 

[Triggaaar]

To be honest, option A whilst well thought out and extremely effective- that’s actually the terms for peace, not achievable terms for a ceasefire. A ceasefire is simply stop fighting in order to negotiate terms such as you suggest.

Yes true. I was just typing off the top of my head

I believe there will be a ceasefire, currently Macron is suggesting 1 month in order to negotiate terms (such as you suggest perhaps) there certainly won’t be any negotiation at all whilst guns are still firing. I read today that Zelenskyy is still prepared to sign the minerals deal so that is encouraging.

Interesting. I'm thinking there won't be a ceasefire, because Putin wouldn't agree to one unless it benefitted him, and if it benefits him then it's bad for Ukraine. But maybe the West will put too much pressure on Zelenskyy and he'll feel he has to. It would be a bad decision for him though.

I don't see why there can't be negotiations whilst the guns are firing.

 

[Triggaaar]

Is Ukraine in NATO?

You really don't know anything do you

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I understand your anger, but my president has never sided with a genocidal fascist. He wants to end the killing. Don't you? Do you have a solution?

Oh do f*** off. That really is offensive. Putin is on his knees, the right support to Ukraine would push him out of Ukraine and into the history books. Trump could be the first US president to put the Russian bear to bed without losing an American life, but no, he‘s siding with the genocidal prick. His support of Putin makes no logical sense unless he has some deal already brokered with him, or Putin has something on him.
The one upside is that he pissed off most of the known world and Europe is more united than it has ever been.
The tariffs on Canada and Mexico are suicidal for the US economy.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

With Trump trying to tip the scales decisively in Putin's favour, I would like to see two things:

1) Europe invest massively in Ukraine's military, paid for with frozen Russian money - €300 billion.

2) Ukraine concentrate on low risk, primarily defensive actions within Ukraine to preserve lives of their people whilst repeatedly hitting every Russian oil facility, including loading terminals, to bring their economy to its knees.

 

[SouthSaxon]

reckon Zelensky has to go to US and kiss the ring as expected. as an actor he should ham it up: get the finest suit, literally get on bended knee and plead for assistance and sign "the deal", to make President look like the tyranical monarch. Trump would lap it up, but not a look that'll work well long term. there's also a matter of calling their bluff, get a few US contractors on the ground this week, into regions on front line, so Russia has to stop fighting. don't resist Trump, play his game to advantage.

If he wants Trump’s support, yes, he has to play to the man’s narcissism. It’s unedifying and it’s awful, but he has no choice unless or until Europe can offer more meaningful military support.

But he does have “cards” he can play (Trump saying he doesn’t is just an attempt to control and subjugate). Trump’s narcissism can be used to advantage as Starmer demonstrated.

If I were Zelenskyy, I would offer to nominate Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize in exchange for security guarantees. But, after Friday, that might not be enough.

(I’m not saying Trump is in the right, but I have come around to the view that Zelenskyy didn’t help himself in not using techniques that Macron and Starmer did)

 

[Giraffe]

How did we go from “Trump is going to start WWWIII”…

…to now being angry that Trump is trying to stop WWIII from happening?

And explain it to me like I’m a five year old.

 

[SouthSaxon]

With Trump trying to tip the scales decisively in Putin's favour, I would like to see two things:

1) Europe invest massively in Ukraine's military, paid for with frozen Russian money - €300 billion.

2) Ukraine concentrate on low risk, primarily defensive actions within Ukraine to preserve lives of their people whilst repeatedly hitting every Russian oil facility, including loading terminals, to bring their economy to its knees.

European leaders who are nervous about the impact of 1) on the markets need to get real. Trump’s tariffs are already destabilising them.